Cherylee Black psychokinesis after NDE, any proof?

Raf999

In general, you may find Wikipedia not to be the most reliable source for information about parapsychology.

And Uri Geller certainly did do some lab tests - we have a whole thread on it somewhere. Of course the tests have been criticised, so the criticisms need to be evaluated.

I did a test using the "15 minutes training into PK" from Sean.

Basically, without the glass dome the tin foil spins with hand movements, even the smallest ones. I wasn't focusing or anything else, it's just air. I close the tin foil wheel under a glass, and... I place my hands on it, still not focusing on anything or doing any technique, it starts to spin a bit after a while and then finds it balance and comes to a stop. The reason? Hot air, my hands were hot and they made the air inside the glass move.

I'm still pretty sure PK is fake after this, even more than before.

"To fully believe him, I need to see him tested."

There is an alternative. Learn the skill yourself. Then you would believe him. At least that is how I came to accept the idea of out-of-body-experiences, not by reading only, but by doing. (It wasn't easy -though for some it may be - it took regular practice with the intention of achieving this goal).

"Uri Geller never wanted to be lab tested."

Uri Geller was in fact lab tested.


Just one example for now:

There is an alternative. Learn the skill yourself. Then you would believe him. At least that is how I came to accept the idea of out-of-body-experiences, not by reading only, but by doing. (It wasn't easy -though for some it may be - it took regular practice with the intention of achieving this goal).

Uri Geller was in fact lab tested.


Just one example for now:

I tried the McNamara course and the tin foil rotates even if I don't focus or do anything with my mind. When I place my hands on the glass, the glass becomes hot and then air starts moving making the wheel spin. Nothing paranormal in it.

I did a test using the "15 minutes training into PK" from Sean.

Basically, without the glass dome the tin foil spins with hand movements, even the smallest ones. I wasn't focusing or anything else, it's just air. I close the tin foil wheel under a glass, and... I place my hands on it, still not focusing on anything or doing any technique, it starts to spin a bit after a while and then finds it balance and comes to a stop. The reason? Hot air, my hands were hot and they made the air inside the glass move.

I'm still pretty sure PK is fake after this, even more than before.

Are you sure?

Personally, I tried the experiment with a foil resting on a needle, all covered with a glass and I got nothing. No movement at all. Your hands must be a whole lot warmer than mine, I guess.

Seriously, I've not had any success in deliberately trying to achieve this. I neither agree nor disagree with those who claim it is possible, at least in principle. That doesn't mean I accept every example which I come across without question. I just tend to hover in the "questioning" mode for a whole lot longer - decades in fact. I'm reluctant to jump to a hasty conclusion on the matter.

I did a test using the "15 minutes training into PK" from Sean.

Basically, without the glass dome the tin foil spins with hand movements, even the smallest ones. I wasn't focusing or anything else, it's just air. I close the tin foil wheel under a glass, and... I place my hands on it, still not focusing on anything or doing any technique, it starts to spin a bit after a while and then finds it balance and comes to a stop. The reason? Hot air, my hands were hot and they made the air inside the glass move.

I'm still pretty sure PK is fake after this, even more than before.

They do actually talk about this possible explanation in the first video that came up (for me) when I followed the first link Ninshub posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7aNl6Qa_Gs&t=6m

Certainly they claim that the effect persists even when they don't touch the glass.

I tried the McNamara course and the tin foil rotates even if I don't focus or do anything with my mind. When I place my hands on the glass, the glass becomes hot and then air starts moving making the wheel spin. Nothing paranormal in it.

If the foil rotates even when you are not interacting in any way with the apparatus, then there must be a problem with your set up, or it wasn't allowed to settle into equilibrium before you begin. Try leaving it overnight and then approach - but don't touch it the next day - see what happens.

Personally I don't think 15 minutes is long enough to do anything other than construct the apparatus. To actually try the experiment I'd suggest anything from a few weeks to many months, perhaps years.

I'd compare it again with achieving an out-of-body-state. It took me many months, definitely more than a year, to achieve anything in that area. On the other hand some do it spontaneously, perhaps unintentionally. People do differ, that's for sure.

But I think if any question of potential dishonesty arises, then it's obviously relevant if someone stands to gain financially, because it provides a possible motive. That would be the same whether we were talking about paranormal or non-paranormal claims.

But that's the point, it's the same, there's isn't any need or even logical justification for treating the "paranormal" as any different. So if someone's reason for why they're suspicious is "they're asking for money" that's just ridiculous. I guess they must also be suspicious of web developers, electricians and lawyers and so on and so forth then because wanting to be paid for doing their job is suspicious. I mean, what, is someone who has access to the internet going to tell me that they've never heard of this alien concept called "money" and exchanging it for goods and services?

The rules are all the same, if you're selling something its to your benefit to show your potential customers that you can actually do what you claim and that its worth the cost. Reviews, references from other clients, credentials, a portfolio, whatever. It's the same regardless of whether someone's selling art, plumbing, mediumship or psychokinesis. If you don't, can't, or lie about it and get caught you won't get many customers and your business fails. There's literally zero need for any special considerations and I expect people to just know that at this point.

I get what you say, but since materialism is the mainstream science Mcnamara small feats can help debunk it. Even something tiny and harmless like that still has to be explained, and first we have to rule out frauds. How can he do that stuff using fraudolent methods? If there is no fraud, then we can attack materialism even on such a small thing.

Oh don't get me wrong, Sean's doing a great thing by demonstrating his abilities. He provides a very good proof of concept to build from and I do think it matters to show it's not fraudulent. Not just because of trying to prove it to others but because if you really want to develop something like tht for real you want to make sure for yourself that it's actually working so you can refine it.

As far as lifting 100kg of stuff i'm pretty sure it is impossible. Same as stopping bullets or similar feats, it's real of movies and fiction. And, even is somebody could be able of doing something like that, he/she would be taken be the governament or corporations in no time to become a test subject, sliced up and used to find a way to weaponize his ability. And we would never know about it since the people doing it would cover it up. I mean, who wouldn't want supersoldiers?

I don't think its impossible, I think its just math. It takes X amount of energy applied in Y way to achieve Z result. all that needs to be done is to figure out how to solve the equation. I'm attempting to achieve results far beyond that level and I do think it's possible, it'll just be really, really hard. I won't deny that I've thought quite extensively on how defense is going to have to be handled because I fully expect that bad things will follow if I'm able to achieve this.

NDEs are different as they are harmless and can't be weaponized so no agency will threaten them directly. But who claims to have superpowers, albeit small, after an NDE should give people proof of them, or I'll remain skeptical.

NDE's are extremely dangerous believe it or not. Sure you can't directly use them to attack someone. But if too many people start understanding that death isn't the end a very large amount of the control mechanisms the current power elite use to keep people in line will stop working. Because all those mechanisms rely on people valuing survival and forcing them to be dependent on the system to get it. The moment people start to realize, en masse, that survival doesn't matter they will start to openly disobey and challenge the system since they now know they have nothing to lose and everything to gain from it.

It is, therefore, in the power elites best interest to foster a majority mainstream culture of pure materialism so that they can make people feel like they've only got this one shot at life and that's it. Both to destroy their ambition of challenging the system because "what does it matter anyways, I won't even exist afterwards" and also to make them afraid of challenging it since they've only got one shot and if it fails that's it.  Trying to entice people down a path of compliance and docility where they value simple temporary pleasures instead of attempting to do great things in the world.

I tried the McNamara course and the tin foil rotates even if I don't focus or do anything with my mind. When I place my hands on the glass, the glass becomes hot and then air starts moving making the wheel spin. Nothing paranormal in it.

Yeah, see, this is exactly what I meant when I said that if I stuck to pure rationality I would've just been sitting there, waiting impudently for reality to spoonfeed me evidence and I would've learned nothing. You did a single trial of one persons method, it didn 't work, and you honestly believe you know everything there is to know? I'm not going to mince word with this, that's just fucking pathetic. Do you also walk into martial arts studios, spend 15 minutes doing a couple punches and then believe you can take on the grandmaster because it all looks really easy?

I'm not just saying that rhetorically, my grandmaster in kung fu had stories of people who literally did that and it ended as well as you would expect for them.

That's the difference between someone like you and someone like me in this regard. I accept that PK and similar currently do not exist at the level I want and am okay with that because I'm willing to put in the time and effort to figure out how to get it there. Whereas you tried it once and gave up when it didn't give you what you wanted. That has nothing to do with whether or not PK can be done and everything to do with you not wanting to try developing it yourself. That's perfectly fine.

But instead of just admitting that you went the extra mile and declared that your one failed attempt means that the entire thing is nonsense. I don't want to learn how to play the piano but I don't declare that piano playing is dumb and for losers if I tap a few keys and then stop, because I'm not a little bitch.

Yes, you'll probably continue to be "sceptical" about PK and the rest until someone comes along and spoonfeeds  you evidence as if you deserve it. I for one wouldn't waste my time even if I could demonstrate it.

But that's the point, it's the same, there's isn't any need or even logical justification for treating the "paranormal" as any different. So if someone's reason for why they're suspicious is "they're asking for money" that's just ridiculous. I guess they must also be suspicious of web developers, electricians and lawyers and so on and so forth then because wanting to be paid for doing their job is suspicious. I mean, what, is someone who has access to the internet going to tell me that they've never heard of this alien concept called "money" and exchanging it for goods and services?

The rules are all the same, if you're selling something its to your benefit to show your potential customers that you can actually do what you claim and that its worth the cost. Reviews, references from other clients, credentials, a portfolio, whatever. It's the same regardless of whether someone's selling art, plumbing, mediumship or psychokinesis. If you don't, can't, or lie about it and get caught you won't get many customers and your business fails. There's literally zero need for any special considerations and I expect people to just know that at this point.

We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the validity of these claims weren't in doubt.

What I'm saying is that when the validity of someone's claims is in doubt, then in judging those claims it becomes relevant whether the person stands to profit from them.

I agree the paranormal shouldn't be treated differently. I said that myself. But we're talking about doubtful claims, so it's not appropriate to compare a paranormal claimant with a plumber. But art could indeed be a better comparison. Suppose there's a work of art whose provenance is disputed, and someone offers an "expert opinion" that it's genuine. I think in those circumstances it would be very relevant to know whether they stood to profit from that - for example, if they had been offered a percentage of the sale price.