Can lab-grown brains become conscious?

I don't think it would falsify the spirit hypothesis, since we don't really know what it takes for a spirit to inhabit a body or be created at the same time as a body.

Heck, we don't even know what a soul is, it's a sort of placeholder word that could be a subtle-body or a PoV alter or a sort of Aristotelian/Platonic Form.

I agree, except that what I really had in mind was that if somehow we could follow the unfolding of consciousness in the lab-grown brain as it physically developed, we would have a reasonable guess that this consciousness was being generated by this proto-brain. Of course we wouldn't ever have absolute proof, since this consciousness could still conceivably have been introduced from outside and the developmental observations could just be correlations. The bottom line, maybe as a practical matter we can never truly falsify the spirit hypothesis. But we can falsify the materialist mind/brain hypothesis, and in my opinion actually have.

I agree, except that what I really had in mind was that if somehow we could follow the unfolding of consciousness in the lab-grown brain as it physically developed, we would have a reasonable guess that this consciousness was being generated by this proto-brain. Of course we wouldn't ever have absolute proof, since this consciousness could still conceivably have been introduced from outside and the developmental observations could just be correlations. The bottom line, maybe as a practical matter we can never truly falsify the spirit hypothesis. But we can falsify the materialist mind/brain hypothesis, and in my opinion actually have.

I think it's possible the consciousness can be generated by the proto-brain but still end up existing after death.

I think those religions that reject reincarnation already think [of bodies and souls like] that. I assume God places a soul "within" a body. Or in Kastrup's Idealism these new living beings are new alternate personalities disassociated from the Ur-Mind.

I think it's possible the consciousness can be generated by the proto-brain but still end up existing after death.

I think those religions that reject reincarnation already think [of bodies and souls like] that. I assume God places a soul "within" a body. Or in Kastrup's Idealism these new living beings are new alternate personalities disassociated from the Ur-Mind.

I don't see how that could be the case. If consciousness was actually generated by the proto-brain it would presumably be in some sense one and the same as the data processing actions of the brain cells and neurological structures of this brain, or somehow an emergent property of these brain cells and structures and their processing. But if that were the case, once those brain cells and neurological structures die or at most when they are physically degraded and destroyed, the consciousness would dissipate into nothing.

I don't see how that could be the case. If consciousness was actually generated by the proto-brain it would presumably be in some sense one and the same as the data processing actions of the brain cells and neurological structures of this brain, or somehow an emergent property of these brain cells and structures and their processing. But if that were the case, once those brain cells and neurological structures die or at most when they are physically degraded and destroyed, the consciousness would dissipate into nothing.

I guess it depends on what consciousness is. Even a physicalist like Johnjoe McFadden, who believes consciousness is grounded in an EM field, says it could be possible for the self to survive as Information.

One might argue that Integrated Information can continue beyond its original substrate.

I guess it depends on what consciousness is. Even a physicalist like Johnjoe McFadden, who believes consciousness is grounded in an EM field, says it could be possible for the self to survive as Information.

One might argue that Integrated Information can continue beyond its original substrate.

That's interesting. Can you specify and describe an example of information or Integrated Information existing without a physical substrate embodying it be it EM field or configuration of matter? And if it existed, how it would causally act and interact in the physical world of matter and energy? In our Earthly experience immaterial Information does seem to exist and have causal efficacy, but only as knowledge held in human consciousness and therefore able to act in the world through conscious human bodily actions based on this immaterial Information. And of course there is the putative realm of Platonic mathematical forms assumed to exist by many mathematicians. 

Anyway, the only example I can think of, of immaterial Information existing without a physical substrate but still able to interact in the physical world, would be the very one in debate, the soul or spirit or discarnate spiritual center of consciousness, whose basic nature is a complete mystery.

Doesn’t this presume the production model for consciousness? If the filter model were to be true, the there might be many different way for consciousness to express itself no?

Doesn’t this presume the production model for consciousness? If the filter model were to be true, the there might be many different way for consciousness to express itself no?

Yeah, I think we all are open to the filter-model. We're just talking about consciousness being explicitly generated by the brain.

I guess another way it could work is if matter has something like "proto-consciousness" that comes together like drops of mercury into an actual awakened Self due to the structure o the brain. Then that Self continues on b/c of Information Patterns or perhaps as a field itself.

After all even a "field" is just a placeholder word for certain measurements grouped together by common behavior. The "physical" is quite mysterious and fuzzy, whereas we can all know consciousness intimately from our own experience.