A splendid video about evolution

I think the complete narrative about human life almost certainly includes the concept that we are training in some way - rather like going to the gym, but to work, we can't know the whole truth - so some things are screened off. That way we live this life - not just knowingly play a game.

It is interesting that this screening doesn't seem to be total.

David

I have at times been inclined to think some aspects of this life are preparation for something else...but what would that "something else" be?

I think the complete narrative about human life almost certainly includes the concept that we are training in some way - rather like going to the gym, but to work, we can't know the whole truth - so some things are screened off. That way we live this life - not just knowingly play a game.

It is interesting that this screening doesn't seem to be total.

David

Replacing established religion with personal musings about the meaning of life doesn’t, in my opinion, make the idea of a spiritual dimension any more plausible. I happened to visit Hiroshima last Friday and went to the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum. Reading about the fates of children who weren’t instantly killed by the bomb but who then died horrible deaths within a few weeks did little to comfort me or reinforce the belief that our existence has any inherent meaning.

I think we have a psychological need to invent meaning in our lives—it’s simply too difficult to face the alternative.

I have at times been inclined to think some aspects of this life are preparation for something else...but what would that "something else" be?

I have wondered a lot about that. One answer might just be that incarnating was a project that made life (for the spirits) more interesting! We inhabit a sort of spiritual gym.

David

I have at times been inclined to think some aspects of this life are preparation for something else...but what would that "something else" be?

Maybe it really is as simple as experience ~ well, certain types of experiences that are our souls are interested in ~ so that we can come away with more perspective. And so, we grow and learn as a result, even if the experiences aren't what we expected.

I have wondered a lot about that. One answer might just be that incarnating was a project that made life (for the spirits) more interesting! We inhabit a sort of spiritual gym.

David

It's simple to consider if one understands that a vast being has almost no limits and can do whatever it wants within its domain ~ that would become... very samey. Limitation, however, provides opportunities for perspectives and experiences that we might never otherwise ever be able to have. We can't just run away from uncomfortable things. We can experience pleasurable things from a fresh perspective. Maybe even face fears from a fresh perspective.

Replacing established religion with personal musings about the meaning of life doesn’t, in my opinion, make the idea of a spiritual dimension any more plausible. I happened to visit Hiroshima last Friday and went to the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum. Reading about the fates of children who weren’t instantly killed by the bomb but who then died horrible deaths within a few weeks did little to comfort me or reinforce the belief that our existence has any inherent meaning.

I think we have a psychological need to invent meaning in our lives—it’s simply too difficult to face the alternative.

That memorial must be horrific to visit - I hope you can avoid obsessing over those images. It is awful that the modern world is so obsessed with nuclear weapons - and indeed weapons in general.

I gave up Christianity at age 20 and was totally atheist for many years. I only very gradually came to the views I express here. One discovery that started me down that journey was that British TV would have programs about the paranormal, and these always came with a "proper scientist" who would explain that there was no scientific evidence for any such phenomena. On one occasion, I knew that peer-reviewed papers had been published on the subject of telepathy. The paper reported on an experiment in which an error correcting code was used to improve the accuracy of telepathy. Of course, that would only work if telepathy were a real effect, partially obscured by noise. The proper scientist made no reference to these experiments, and I realised that there were scientists who were happy to exaggerate/lie to promote their cause.

I'm not sure that the prospect of some sort of life after death is very comforting - particularly if one believes in a judgmental God. I'm sure that many in the Middle Ages must have taken comfort in the idea that death would be the end!

If you listen to the video at the head of this thread, you can't fail to be faced with fact (at least as I see it) that the fact that life works on long strings of data (DNA) that provides no survival benefit unless it is almost right. Darwin himself pointed out that RM+NS only works incrementally, and we now know that our genes are digital in nature. Conversely, some fine tuning can be achieved by RM+NS, so his finches probably did evolve as he described.

As you must have noticed, I am not a fan of religious ideas, but once you eliminate all meaning from science, you find something very strange - because it applies to everything. For example, what is the point in debating any subject - as we are doing here - if absolutely everything is meaningless? Even what happened to those children in Hiroshima becomes a meaningless rearrangement of their bodies, leading to their death - but so what?

David

Replacing established religion with personal musings about the meaning of life doesn’t, in my opinion, make the idea of a spiritual dimension any more plausible. I happened to visit Hiroshima last Friday and went to the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum. Reading about the fates of children who weren’t instantly killed by the bomb but who then died horrible deaths within a few weeks did little to comfort me or reinforce the belief that our existence has any inherent meaning.

I think we have a psychological need to invent meaning in our lives—it’s simply too difficult to face the alternative.

You choose events that are extreme in nature, and conclude from those alone that there is no meaning...? That just feels nihilistic.

There is inherent meaning in our existence ~ the meaning we choose to give it. It has always been a choice.

We don't have to "invent" meaning ~ we live and breathe meaning with our every action and choice. Now multiply that for every single living thing.

We living in a world shaped entirely by meaning. Even where it may not be fully apparent ~ something has meaning to someone.

I think we should separate the questions of religion & meaning from Design and Survival.

I am confident in Survival, and I think at least Cosmic Fine Tuning is a strong argument for Design.

Neither of these require a God to exist.

I will say that if the only reason for suffering in this world is a form of entertainment for spirits - which could include ourselves - I would find that to be a sign reality is more a joke than something meaningful.

I think we should separate the questions of religion & meaning from Design and Survival.

I am confident in Survival, and I think at least Cosmic Fine Tuning is a strong argument for Design.

Neither of these require a God to exist.

I agree. These questions don't rely on knowing whether or not a "God" exists, nevermind the nature of said "God".

I will say that if the only reason for suffering in this world is a form of entertainment for spirits - which could include ourselves - that I would find that to be a sign reality is more a joke than something meaningful.

Well... from my experiences, at least, there seems to be significant meaning, but that significant meaning is apparently something we're not easily aware of in this state of being. The only minor joke, perhaps, is that we take it all so damn seriously from this perspective, but there is compassion as well in that we can't be expected to see as anything else but serious from this state of being. It comes with the nature of the experience.

I think we should separate the questions of religion & meaning from Design and Survival.

I am confident in Survival, and I think at least Cosmic Fine Tuning is a strong argument for Design.

Strangely enough, I am much keener on the argument based on the impossibility of the evolution of DNA. The concept of fine tuning is just too abstract, and I really have doubts about a lot of modern physics, as you know.

Neither of these require a God to exist.

I will say that if the only reason for suffering in this world is a form of entertainment for spirits - which could include ourselves - I would find that to be a sign reality is more a joke than something meaningful.

A lot of human leisure pursuits involve pain and/or risk - sometimes quite a lot of it, yet strangely enough people engage in these activities to "build their character" or just for the excitement. I'm thinking of:

Climbing a very high mountain.

Rock climbing.

Skiing at high speed, accepting the risks.

Having potentially risky sex.

Pushing yourself to the limit running.

Remember, from my perspective, the spirits that you think of as being "entertained" are us.

David