2024-03-01, 05:23 PM
(2024-03-01, 08:05 AM)Valmar Wrote: [ -> ]Experiences of such suffering most certainly appear and feel existentially bad and unjust, undeserved and unchosen in the moment, and it's perfectly okay to have those feelings. I know, because I went through that hell with childhood sexual trauma... and relived those most nightmarish, black emotions in full during my Ayahuasca experience, which allowed them to be healed and integrated. There was nothing but dissociation during it, which is why the surroundings were empty. The pain was all-consuming. Now... I can recall back to those moments and feel completely unaffected, as the emotions have been healed. That piece of me has been healed of its wounds.
What I think you are not aware of is the powerful insights that come after the full healing of the pain, after trauma has been healed, and we can see with clarity unburdened by the storm of suffering. There is a method to the madness, though it may not be apparent at the time.
You keep saying this, without evidence, based entirely on emotion, cherry-picking any bit of evidence that supports what you already believe, refusing to accept anything else.
It seems that no amount of anything can convince you otherwise, so I may as well just be wasting my words. Your emotions are far too strong. I can empathize, because I had my moments of emotionally-driven blindness in the past. It's impossible to see through when it clouds your mind.
You almost seem to think that my experiences have left me cold and distant. No... I'm just no longer blinded by the pain, the pain being cleansed. You say there is inherent injustice, yet the soul chooses to put itself through hell for the purpose of experience and growth. It is easy to think of the soul as some cold, distant entity when that in fact is most far from the truth.
I myself have been through so much... when you're stuck in the pain, you cannot see past it all... so such feeling of it all being unjust, unfair, undeserved is perfectly okay. There's nothing wrong with such emotions. It's when they become blinding, consuming, enthralling, that they become a problem. But it's impossible to see when you are possessed by them... you don't even realize what's happening in the moment, as they compel and consume your awareness, poisoning the ability to think with clarity.
The only thing that can heal such pain and anger is acceptance and a full feeling of it. Which can be... so difficult. So, so very difficult. My mind would have broken under the weight of the emotions if I didn't have Ayahuasca guiding and supporting me, showing me how to heal it. I was still the one who had to choose to accept it, but it was easy, because I was so extremely desperate to be free of the pain.
If it is intolerable to you, then so it is for the soul in the moment, as it experiences it with you. Because it is you, not separate as you believe.
Do you not sometimes willingly put yourself through strenuous, painful experiences? Maybe a hike that leaves you feeling miserable at the time, but after the fact, you can in retrospect see that you felt better because of it?
The point being that in the moment, we cannot think of the positive outcomes, only after the fact, when the experience is over.
Understandable. Perhaps you will be able to be able to understand the point of it all once you either heal the pain, or depart into the afterlife when your time comes. That's how it seems to be, generally...
I do not fully understand why I am where I am, because I only have a part of the picture, but at least I know that pain and suffering is only temporary, not matter how harsh and unforgiving it can be. There's a reason for it all in the end.
I appreciate your thoughtful and thorough responses.
I think your undoubtedly wise replies come from having somehow attained partial consciousness of your soul and of being part of it. Unfortunately that is very rare in our population. The vast majority of humans live their entire lives conscious only of their human selves limited to memories of life starting in early childhood, and to their identification with their physical bodies and their Earth experience-molded personalities.
What I think you have not grasped is that from my perspective developed in wiser later life (and I have acquired at least some wisdom regarding the possible meanings and purposes of such difficulties) I can survey the hellish periods in my life and automatically still feel the pain all over again (though greatly muted), and still consider what I have learned from them as simply not worth the suffering to the human me (which is what I have lived as, like most all human beings). Presumably it was worth it to my soul, but was it worth it to me? Am I not entitled to have this opinion?
My recovery simply was because these periods spontaneously just gradually went away all by themselves as I aged, not in any way apparent to me due to my having learned a thing or two about enduring and surviving great adversity. It was more as if they were symptoms of brain disorders of some kind that eventually healed, and that process proceeded irrespective of any wisdom or knowledge accumulated, or for that matter of any of the mostly ineffective drugs that were used. My life was greatly stunted and darkly colored; nothing can change that unfortunate past fact. I feel compassion and great regret for my former self, but also a still remaining anger and outrage (though again muted quite a bit).
I don't see how any further knowledge and "powerful insights" obtained of the supposed actual Soul meanings and purposes of these episodes (perhaps gotten through powerful psychedelic drug experiences) could change the existential eternal human wrongness and badness of them. That I went through these periods is an unchangeable fact that has a great wrongness in itself, regardless of any later illuminations regarding them. And as you say, "...at least I know that pain and suffering is only temporary." I have certainly learned this through hard experience, but this knowledge of an ameliorating factor doesn't dilute the existential badness.
Perhaps my position is in part an intellectual and philosophical/metaphysical one, that actual conscious sentient experience and its experiential qualities are the ultimate center or nucleus of our existence, and their meanings , purposes and other factors regarding them are secondary or derivative in significance and importance.