(2024-03-15, 03:44 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]At this stage in our discourse I can only say that despite areas of agreement we just will have to agree to disagree on this highlighted crucial point. As far as I my human self am concerned, since I am the human person who had to live it, I can very legitimately judge that the suffering of my earlier life indissoluably and permanently stands as a basic wrongness inflicted on me by another power not my human self. Of course (despite its natural importance to me) its severity was nothing compared to the very worst that is inflicted on Humanity.
Anyway, this permanent indissolvability is because intense human experiences good or bad stand forever existentially and fundamentally in spacetime and consciousness and can't be washed away by later revelations of the reasons and rationalizations for them. Lived human experience is in itself eternal in a block Universe.
I realize that of course perhaps in the highest spiritual dimension of reality there is no Block Universe and past events simply stop existing except as memories or other remnants.
And it occurs to me that you have never directly engaged my example of how in your taught higher spiritual design of reality truly meaningless and protracted suffering can happen in the human world. This is where apparently (if soul choice of upcoming lives is a real phenomenon), sometimes a soul may deliberately enter a fetus which due to cruel chance of the physical world is destined inevitably and predictably to die young after a life of prodominantly extreme suffering, by time and place and circumstances of birth or by birth genetic or somatic defects or by diseases physically inherited from the mother. And it may be that the child dies before he/she has had any significant development of a human personality, and therefore can't learn anything from the experience. Both the mother and father may in some circumstances also die before any sort of learning could proceed from this terrible experience.
In that extreme but eminently possible case that undoubtably actually happens occasionally in this wide world, there doesn't seem to be any at all either higher meaning or purpose or lower human meaning and purpose to it. The soul hasn't gained from it and the human certainly not - there is no spiritual or higher compensation whatsoever (other than the soul to have gained an acute appreciation of how important it is to avoid major mistakes). It is just fundamentally in itself 100% an eternal wrongness, it seems to me, and the spiritual doctrine that ultimately all is good from the perspective of the Souls is falsified.
You make many unfounded presumptions about the nature of souls and how they relate to incarnation, concluding that it means that they are alien, cruel, possibly evil. Souls are none of that. They don't think like a human, or any other biological entity for that matter. They have a much wider perspective, given that aren't limited by incarnation.
The portion of soul incarnates, and is increasingly blinded by the veil of forgetfulness through more and more connection with the physical body. The soul and human incarnation aren't different ~ but the human incarnation is more and more affected by incarnation. The human incarnation, again, is not a completely separate entity ~ it is a part of the soul that chooses to put itself through hell.
You think the human suffers? Yes, it does. But, so does the soul, because the soul chose to experience that existence. The soul experiences everything its incarnate portion does... so I'd be asking, why the hell do souls choose put themselves through this seeming hell? Because souls are never permanently harmed. The incarnation may suffer... but that suffering is healed once incarnation ends, and the context of the suffering is revealed in full.
It's not a cruel design... it's a design where a soul knows that it may suffer horrifically, but it will be mercifully short according its perspective on time, which is vastly different. Souls look at reality far differently than any incarnate entity does, which is why they can consider putting themselves through these experiences.
You also ignore, or are perhaps blinded to, the beauty in life. There is so much beauty I couldn't recognize before, as it seemed to have no meaning. But now, I can appreciate the small things. A jumping spider's curiosity. A dog's simple happiness. A cat's pretense aloofness. A plant's reaching for the sun. And so on.
There is no actual difference between the incarnation and the soul, other than the incarnation became affected by the nature of incarnation through the veil of forgetfulness. What the nature of the veil of forgetfulness is... isn't a curse or inherent limitation. If anything, it's a consequence of interacting with a reality whose energies are so heavy, so that portion of soul becomes strongly affected by that ~ during incarnation, at least.
The point of all of this is that you are looking at it all with a very dark, poisoned and distorted perspective, which achieves nothing meaningful. It is a feedback loop based on your traumas, which indeed poison the ability to see with clarity. I know, because I've been there myself, and have only recently attained the clarity to see past that.
And even then, I have my moments where I'm momentarily stuck in the blackness... constipation strips me of my clarity, for example. I cannot connect with my intuition. But the difference is experience... I can recall the moments where I had clarity, and long desperately for that again, because the feeling of calmness is worth everything.