To NDE or not to NDE (re-done)

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that Sartori said that the OBEs were dead on accurate. She notes many discrepancies between what the patient reported and the actual conditions, among those with OBEs.

Maybe you are thinking of the few OBEers who incorporated details of their resuscitation in their imagery? Those details incorporated into their imagery tended to be accurate (for a loose definition of accurate). But both the OBEers and the non-OBEers were inaccurate when they were queried about conditions which weren't incorporated into their imagery (the hidden targets, for example).

Linda

To revisit this thread, I was reading about a post where Linda was claiming there are a lot of NDEs that got the details in their OBEs wrong? What is to be thought about this? 

She often references Penny Sartori, who actually I believe took all the OBEs she could find reported, and found that the vast majority of them were dead on accurate. With only a few having "errors"

Not sure whether this is coincidence but my Facebook News this morning has a Skeptiko link to an interview Alex did with Penny. Here's a quote:

Yeah. So, it just goes to show that the people who did report the near-death experience, described their experience with accuracy, whereas the control group weren’t accurate, and most of them couldn’t even hazard a guess. So, it just makes you think.

http://skeptiko.com/penny-sartori-are-nd...-love-374/

I was reminded of this thread after Dante responded to my post about NDEs in the Improbability Principle thread. Desperado and I asked for research on whether or not NDEs could be distinguished from "hallucinations, dreams, and other 'unreal' experiences". I'm not aware of any and no one offered some references (although ridicule is a popular response  ). 

I'm bumping this thread to ask whether anyone can suggest references for research which has actively looked at this. The closest I can think of is Steven Laureys' study on the quality of memories of NDEs compared to other events (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article...e.0057620#). He found that memory of NDEs were more like "flashbulb memories" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashbulb_memory), although he regarded them as flashbulb memories of hallucinations. However, his sample of NDEers seems to have been an unrepresentative sample selected post hoc on the basis of whether the experience was memorable to begin with, rather than a prospective collection. So that doesn't tell us whether NDEs are more memorable than other kinds of emotionally charged 'unreal' experiences (as one potential way to distinguish them), as much as it tells us that experiences selected on the basis of whether they are memorable tend to be more memorable.

Any other suggestions/ideas?

Linda

I was reminded of this thread after Dante responded to my post about NDEs in the Improbability Principle thread. Desperado and I asked for research on whether or not NDEs could be distinguished from "hallucinations, dreams, and other 'unreal' experiences". I'm not aware of any and no one offered some references (although ridicule is a popular response  ). 

I'm bumping this thread to ask whether anyone can suggest references for research which has actively looked at this. The closest I can think of is Steven Laureys' study on the quality of memories of NDEs compared to other events (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article...e.0057620#). He found that memory of NDEs were more like "flashbulb memories" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashbulb_memory), although he regarded them as flashbulb memories of hallucinations. However, his sample of NDEers seems to have been an unrepresentative sample selected post hoc on the basis of whether the experience was memorable to begin with, rather than a prospective collection. So that doesn't tell us whether NDEs are more memorable than other kinds of emotionally charged 'unreal' experiences (as one potential way to distinguish them), as much as it tells us that experiences selected on the basis of whether they are memorable tend to be more memorable.

Any other suggestions/ideas?

Linda

..........................................

Just making a note for the time being.(tim)

Is that last post from Tim or Linda?? It reads like Linda and I certainly don't think Tim would be happy lumping NDEs together with "other kinds of emotionally charged 'unreal' experiences", potentially or otherwise.

Is that last post from Tim or Linda?? It reads like Linda and I certainly don't think Tim would be happy lumping NDEs together with "other kinds of emotionally charged 'unreal' experiences", potentially or otherwise.

I think he's doing it for reference, as Linda make retract her original statements later when under scrunity and edit them to make them look like he's the one misinterpreting them. Just makes a little sense since she apparently resorts to certain "shenignans". Otherwise, I have no clue

Apologies Desparado. I misunderstood your intentions. 

Linda