This has probably been asked before ...but

Something for you left sided boffins to chew over!  Far too complex for little ol' me.  

https://www.newswise.com/articles/consci...y-suggests

What they are trying to prove is QM plays the role in creating consciousness via the interaction it has with microtubules.
Here's a better description. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...085105.htm

With such research this is what they are ultimately attempting to prove.

“The origin of consciousness reflects our place in the universe, the nature of our existence. Did consciousness evolve from complex computations among brain neurons, as most scientists assert? Or has consciousness, in some sense, been here all along, as spiritual approaches maintain?” ask Hameroff and Penrose in the current review.

“This opens a potential Pandora’s Box, but our theory accommodates both these views, suggesting consciousness derives from quantum vibrations in microtubules (protein polymers inside brain neurons), which govern neuronal and synaptic function, and also connect brain processes to self-organizing processes in the fine scale, ‘proto-conscious’ quantum structure of reality.”

http://www.kurzweilai.net/discovery-of-q...sciousness

Sci, you're joking, right?

Stan Woolley is Steve from Skeptiko, as he wrote in his member introduction here:

http://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-54...tml#pid162

Hmmm I thought that too, but it does seem odd to have these "What about comas hmmmm" posts at once in multiple forums?

I figured there were two Steves, but perhaps I'm just wrong? 

The idea I owe Steve001 an apology is just laughable.

His long history of worthless, trolling content merely led me to suspect and I figured the mods could check.

= | = | =


Anyway, to easily cut this "skeptical" foray at the legs, dreaming during anesthesia:

https://vanwinkles.com/what-we-know-abou...-the-knife

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17900017

Dreaming during anaesthesia is defined as any recalled experience (excluding awareness) that occurred between induction of anaesthesia and the first moment of consciousness upon emergence. Dreaming is a commonly-reported side-effect of anaesthesia. 

The idea I owe Steve001 an apology is just laughable.

His long history of worthless, trolling content merely led me to suspect and I figured the mods could check.

Well then, I want an apology from you!

Hmmm I thought that too, but it does seem odd to have all these posts at once in multiple forums?

I figured there were two Steves, but perhaps I'm just wrong? 

All these posts? Multiple forums?

Spell out exactly what you mean Sci.

Well then, I want an apology from you!

Sorry Steve, it just seemed your account had been either hacked or duplicated. And to be perfectly honest I'm still not convinced it hasn't.

I mean look above, a simple Google search puts this "no dreams when you're under" stuff to bed.

Sorry Steve, it just seemed your account had been either hacked or duplicated. And to be perfectly honest I'm still not convinced it hasn't.

I mean look above, a simple Google search puts this "no dreams when you're under" stuff to bed.

No, it does not! There is evidence of dreaming in the recovery stage, but as both Hamerrhof and the papers that Nbtruthman has posted, say that there isn't any during anaesthetic.

"I thought it would be interesting to look a little at what light clinical research might cast on these issues.

"Throughout the night, the sleeping brain cycles through three stages of non-REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, alternating with REM sleep, which is when most dreaming occurs. Each of these has a distinctive EEG pattern. None of those resembles the EEG of a brain under general anesthesia, however. In fact, general anesthesia EEG patterns are most similar to those of a comatose brain. As Brown points out, general anesthesia is essentially a “reversible coma.”" (http://news.mit.edu/2010/anesthesia-brown-0103)

Research has apparently shown that general anesthetic dreaming occurs just before emerging from the anesthesia, not during it. "Anesthetic-related dreaming seems to occur just before awakening and is associated with a rapid eye movement-like electroencephalographic pattern." (the researchers call it "covert REM") (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19672164)

"Dreaming was reported on emergence by 27% of propofol patients and 28% of desflurane patients. Patients reported simple dreams about family, friends, work, and recreation. No patients reported awareness during anesthesia, and there were no dreams that were suggestive of intraoperative memory formation." This was a study with 300 patients. (http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/art...id=1923911)"

The reason I asked on Bernardo's forum, as I've stated before, is that I thought he might have discussed it in his books. The answers I received there, were just as waffly as those here. 

The feeling I get, is that this is one of those areas where nobody really knows. If Bernardo doesn't have an answer, then I strongly suspect google won't either!

It was me, Steve Mc Kinnell, that questioned the Brain being influenced by chemicals in my original post.It doesn't mean that I have suddenly become a materialist, just that it is strange. And it is!

You let yourself down. 

Sorry Steve, it just seemed your account had been either hacked or duplicated. And to be perfectly honest I'm still not convinced it hasn't.

This is bullshit. Put up or shut up!

Where are the offending posts?

This is bullshit. Put up or shut up!

Where are the offending posts?

You mean telling E. Flowers to STFU because he was pointing out that, yes, there is a record of dreaming while under anesthetics, doesn't count as offending to you? Lol. Again, that was something easily discovered with a Google search in a matter of seconds. 

I also question this desperation to take grand offense, to be so angry you feel curse words are necessary.

Beyond that posting this stubborn insistence that you've found the "skeptical" gotcha in regards to comas supposedly turning off consciousness in multiple forums is something we've seen from trolls before.

It fits a pattern, but really I'm happy to let the matter drop.