The OBE. Good Goal or Playing With Fire?

One of the modern non-dual gurus has an interesting inquiry. It is on youtube, but I can't remember the name of the guru or the inquiry.

It is simple but very powerful. You simply inquire about all the parts of you and ask, "Is that you?"

Your name? Is that really you. The real you? Your hair color? Your wealth? Your temperament? Take each sliver of what people define as themselves and ask your self deeply and fully if that attribute is the real you. 

At the end there isn't a whole lot left. Most of it is just a story you have constructed in order to prop up your ego. It's not really an inquiry that you do with any seriousness if you don't want to disrupt your sense of self fairly deeply. 

I believe that is why so many gurus seem divorced from their original identity. They come to realize that there is nothing there. They are an "actor on the stage." 

But at the end there is something left. So they say anyway.

Hm not sure. Sounds like the kind of thing I could do with my car’s engine or a cheeseburger

Hm not sure. Sounds like the kind of thing I could do with my car’s engine or a cheeseburger

Right. Like a zen koan. What is the sound of one cheeseburger with no cheese.

I do think there is a difference between the two--OBEs and lucid dreams. But I don't think that you can necessarily bring back verifiable information simply because you went out of the body.

Simply "getting out of the body" is a huge hurdle for 99% of people, I think. Being able to do it at will and go where one wants and bring back information--those kinds of ideas come from people who really haven't read a lot of literature on the OBE or haven't tried very hard to become a practitioner. Even the most experienced practitioners don't have complete control once they are out of the body.

(I use the phrase "getting out of the body" as a metaphor. I don't really think anything is "leaving the body" per se.)

The type of OBE I am talking about is a consciously induced OBE. You go from being conscious, most likely into a vibrational state, and then into a process where the "astral" body separates completely from the physical. This is distinctly different from lucid dreaming.

It may be the case that one can end up in the same non-physical territories in certain OBEs and lucid dreams, but the path to get there is radically different.

So what do you think Graham Nicholls or the various people at the Monroe Institute are doing?

Aren't there two utterly different questions here:

1)          Do OBE's happen as advertised?

2)          Are they safe?


David

So what do you think Graham Nicholls or the various people at the Monroe Institute are doing?

Aren't there two utterly different questions here:

1)          Do OBE's happen as advertised?

2)          Are they safe?


David

Well there is no doubt on number 1. It's far too common an experience to dispute. What can be discussed it what exactly is occurring when you "leave the body." I expect the answer is close to "There is really no body to leave. Consciousness is a fundamental element of reality and the OBE is some kind of separation of the "mind" from the body, which is really an illusion, like all matter." Is the mind an illusion is a valid question.

Number 2. I don't know. We know there are entities with ill intent. Is it always possible to protect oneself adequately? Some says yes, some say no.

Well there is no doubt on number 1. It's far too common an experience to dispute. What can be discussed it what exactly is occurring when you "leave the body." I expect the answer is close to "There is really no body to leave. Consciousness is a fundamental element of reality and the OBE is some kind of separation of the "mind" from the body, which is really an illusion, like all matter." Is the mind an illusion is a valid question.

To me, there is always a sense that at rock bottom Idealism probably rules, but I feel it is rather like looking at the science of billiard balls (or even planets), Newton's laws are more or less good enough even for planets, but we all know (or at least let's assume) there is ultimately GR.

Thus I think it is more useful to approach psychic phenomena from a Dualistic perspective, even though Idealism is probably there at the bottom. From that perspective, there is a body to leave!

Some people also come back with a lot of information about various astral planes, and some, like Andy on Skeptiko, and Graham Nicholls, certainly claim to have experienced veridical information while out of body.

I'm rather wary of going down the route of dismissing some evidence because it doesn't match a theory.

David

To me, there is always a sense that at rock bottom Idealism probably rules, but I feel it is rather like looking at the science of billiard balls (or even planets), Newton's laws are more or less good enough even for planets, but we all know (or at least let's assume) there is ultimately GR.

Thus I think it is more useful to approach psychic phenomena from a Dualistic perspective, even though Idealism is probably there at the bottom. From that perspective, there is a body to leave!

Some people also come back with a lot of information about various astral planes, and some, like Andy on Skeptiko, and Graham Nicholls,  certainly claim to have experienced veridical information while out of body.

I'm rather wary of going down the route of dismissing some evidence because it doesn't match a theory.

David

I don't disagree. There is of course an apparent physical universe and an apparent body. I'm not dismissing any evidence. I don't disagree with any of the folks writing on the OBE or dreaming, in general.

Aren't there two utterly different questions here:

1)          Do OBE's happen as advertised?

2)          Are they safe?


David

 1) Some do, some don't, it's a personal thing.

2) If by 'safe' you mean you return to body, so to speak, in one piece or uninjured. I haven't heard of any the elite OBErs claim anything except the safety of the OBE. What you do hear, constantly, is how difficult it is to stay in the OB state.

But let's say for the fun of it, the OBE is possibly unsafe. Who you gonna blame? It's your physical reality that you are manifesting, if you create an OBE that is unsafe, then so be it.