The Inevitable Implications of Materialism

Assuming materialism as the primary premise undermines all of reality itself.

The deductive conclusions of assuming materialism as your primary premise in an argument:

"Basically, because of his a priori adherence to reductive materialism (and/or methodological naturalism), the atheistic materialist is forced to claim that he is merely a ‘neuronal illusion’ (Coyne, Dennett, etc..), who has the illusion of free will (Harris), who has unreliable, (i.e. illusory), beliefs about reality (Plantinga), who has illusory perceptions of reality (Hoffman), who, since he has no real time empirical evidence substantiating his grandiose claims, must make up illusory “just so stories” with the illusory, and impotent, ‘designer substitute’ of natural selection (Behe, Gould, Sternberg), so as to ‘explain away’ the appearance (i.e. illusion) of design (Crick, Dawkins), and who must make up illusory meanings and purposes for his life since the completely meaningless nihilism inherent in his atheistic worldview is simply too much for him to bear (Weikart), who must hold morality to be subjective and illusory since he has rejected God as the objective standard of morality (Craig, Kreeft), and who, since beauty itself cannot be grounded within his materialistic worldview, must also hold that beauty itself is also illusory (Darwin).
Bottom line, nothing is truly real in the atheist’s worldview, least of all, beauty, morality, meaning and purposes for life."

From Darwinian Materialism and/or Methodological Naturalism vs. Reality – video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaksmYceRXM .

Assuming materialism as the primary premise undermines all of reality itself.

The deductive conclusions of assuming materialism as your primary premise in an argument:




From Darwinian Materialism and/or Methodological Naturalism vs. Reality – video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaksmYceRXM .

And yet reality 100% exists for the materialist, as does beauty, pain, love, etc.

And yet reality 100% exists for the materialist, as does beauty, pain, love, etc.

Your point?

Your point?

If the materialist perspective undermines all of reality itself, it's sort of ironic that it still allows for reality.

I don't think it is clear how having God ensures morality? There are also Idealists and arguably even some Dualists who likely suffer from the critiques or at least portions of them.

I think some of this is true as it relates to materialism, but the inclusion of atheism might confuse the issue. One can be an atheist, reject intelligent design, and still have a meangingful life...admittedly "meaningful" is a complicated term...

For example, consider Platonic Atheists.

Finally, looking at the state of the world even from the issues of biology I wouldn't give an intelligent designer too much credit.

"All of Eudoxia's confusion, the mules' braying, the lampblack stains, the fish smell is what is evident in the incomplete perspective you grasp; but the carpet proves that there is a point from which the city shows its true proportions, the geometrical scheme implicit in its every, tiniest detail.

It is easy to get lost in Eudoxia: but when you concentrate and stare at the carpet, you recognize the street you were seeking in a crimson or indigo or magenta thread which, in a wide loop, brings you to the purple enclosure that is your real destination. Every inhabitant of Eudoxia compares the carpet's immobile order with his own image of the city, an anguish of his own, and each can find, concealed among the arabesques, an answer, the story of his life, the twists of fate.

An oracle was questioned about the mysterious bond between two objects so dissimilar as the carpet and the city. One of the two objects -- the oracle replied -- has the form the gods gave the starry sky and the orbits in which the worlds revolve; the other is an approximate reflection, like every human creation.

For some time the augurs had been sure that the carpet's harmonious pattern was of divine origin. The oracle was interpreted in this sense, arousing no controversy. But you could, similarly, come to the opposite conclusion: that the true map of the universe is the city of Eudoxia, just as it is, a stain that spreads out shapelessly, with crooked streets, houses that crumble one upon the other amid clouds of dust, fires, screams in the darkness."
  -Calvino, Invisible Cities

I guess the deductive conclusions of materialism summarized in the Op actually just apply to sentient human consciousness and its various aspects including free will, perceptions, beliefs, meanings, purposes, morality and beauty. According to materialism all these things are illusory since they are immaterial, not measurable in a laboratory or detectable via instrumentation. These deductive conclusions don't question that there exists some sort of reality. It's just that whatever this reality is, the logical conclusion of materialism is that it can't really validly be known by humans even including their own existence as conscious thinking entities. 

This of course is logically incoherent or self-contradictory. What is it that is thinking these thoughts about illusions? It is obviously a thinking conscious agent able to choose these thoughts. These logical implications of materialism also of course invalidate all scientific "knowledge" since knowledge is an aspect of consciousness. 

Most materialists don't and can't really live their lives as if all the implications of their materialism were true. If they did they would be mentally deranged.

Most materialists don't and can't really live their lives as if all the implications of their materialism were true. If they did they would be mentally deranged.

I tried it for a while - I lived the (materialist) dream. But the whole thing just fell apart, it took me on a distressing ride for a while, before the wheels fell off and the whole thing crumbled. Out of it came eternity - something not envisaged in the material vision I'd started with.

I tried it for a while - I lived the (materialist) dream. But the whole thing just fell apart, it took me on a distressing ride for a while, before the wheels fell off and the whole thing crumbled. Out of it came eternity - something not envisaged in the material vision I'd started with.

Can you explain what happened please?

Can you explain what happened please?

I guess I've scattered fragments of this story over multiple threads on this forum over the years.

A recent fragment is here:
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-a...4#pid36304

I think I tend to write in a sort of sidelong fashion, not describing things directly and factually. The fact is, it was an unpleasant time in my life involving ill-health among other things, and the details of illness are often not pretty, so I tend to keep them private.

I realise this won't really be a satisfactory response to your question, for which I apologise.