Robert Lea on ghosts and the laws of physics

What is a dog made of ?

Atoms. But it's (the dog's) consciousness is not and we don't know what consciousness is or how it comes about, so we can't even approach it satisfactorily. Your last statement might have some truth in it but it can only ever be speculation until we invent a machine that can somehow "see" consciousness (see it leaving the body) .... and even then we probably won't know what it is.

Tim, I think you and Pssst have different starting points. Again, I don't want to speak for him but I'm guessing he will say that the atoms are manifested consciousness too. It boils down to some form of dualism or some form of idealism. I tend towards the latter but I agree that, for our purposes here in this world, a distinction between a personal consciousness and consciousness as an all-pervading fundamental is necessary.

Tim, I think you and Pssst have different starting points. Again, I don't want to speak for him but I'm guessing he will say that the atoms are manifested consciousness too. It boils down to some form of dualism or some form of idealism. I tend towards the latter but I agree that, for our purposes here in this world, a distinction between a personal consciousness and consciousness as an all-pervading fundamental is necessary.

Thanks, Dave

I've not expressed myself very well there. To be honest, it was only really an attempt to be polite. Psssst (whoever he/she is)
is a bit off the wall for me (I think that's fair to say) but it takes all sorts to make an interesting forum. 

As regards definitions I suppose I'm with you but I usually don't like to have a label. I'm quite sure however that we are embodied spirits and that "ghosts" (look away now sceptics) exist.

I recently had an interesting conversation with the daughter of a renowned physician (recently deceased). He was extremely cautious with his views on near death experiences and related phenomena. Publicly he never would have revealed this, that's for sure but one night (a year or two ago) he was awoken by the apparition of his wife sitting on his bed (they had separate rooms). She summoned him to get up and he subsequently discovered she had fallen in her bathroom.  I think she died relatively quickly after that.

Of course, it doesn't prove anything but it's surely a bit silly for anyone to just hand-wave that away as a hallucination.

Of course, it doesn't prove anything but it's surely a bit silly for anyone to just hand-wave that away as a hallucination.

And I agree with you there. Again, there are just too many of these stories from respected and unexpected sources to warrant that hand-wave.

And I agree with you there. Again, there are just too many of these stories from respected and unexpected sources to warrant that hand-wave.

I've collected a lot reports like that from all different sources. Seeing as it's Halloween. Here's another.

I was visiting a elderly woman (recently widowed) about something (can't remember exactly the reason). She wanted to talk about her husband and how she missed him so much. I don't know what made me say it particularly (it's not always welcome is it)  but I told her that I believed she would see him again one day ( just trying to make her feel a bit better). 

She immediately told me that just before he died (of a cardiac arrest), that very moment in fact *before he died, he called to her excitedly (happily) to her from another room in the house. It wasn't a shout of "I'm in pain come and help me."  It was a "happy puzzled" "just come here a second love" ........that kind of thing.

By the tone of his voice, (very calm) she told me that she knew he was going to tell her that he'd seen somebody or something. I asked her she how knew that, gently. She told me after sixty years together she just knew. Sadly before she could get into the room to see him, he dropped dead.

What is a dog made of ?

Atoms. But it's (the dog's) consciousness is not and we don't know what consciousness is or how it comes about, so we can't even approach it satisfactorily. Your last statement might have some truth in it but it can only ever be speculation until we invent a machine that can somehow "see" consciousness (see it leaving the body) .... and even then we probably won't know what it is.

If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.

I trust those interdimensional travelers with their experiences we cannot even begin to comprehend who teach and support those Laws and axioms that can be found true in any part of Creation. They relate that physical reality is entirely an illusion of our co-creation. Including atoms, electrons, neutrons (the triad of balance), ghosts, asparagus and you and I.

Tim, I think you and Pssst have different starting points. Again, I don't want to speak for him but I'm guessing he will say that the atoms are manifested consciousness too. It boils down to some form of dualism or some form of idealism.

Pssst is an It.

heh

No matter how many times anyone says "Everything" in physical reality is illusory, self-created props, there is always someone who will say "but..."

Pssst is an It.

heh

No matter how many times anyone says "Everything" in physical reality is illusory, self-created props, there is always someone who will say "but..."

But ...

I don't think discussions would get very far if the answer to Everything was - "it's just an illusion". We have to live within the bounds of that illusion, self-created though they may be. I'm not going to test the illusion by jumping off a cliff or thrusting my flesh into a fire. The illusion is real enough while we are immersed in it.

If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.

I trust those interdimensional travelers with their experiences we cannot even begin to comprehend who teach and support those Laws and axioms that can be found true in any part of Creation. They relate that physical reality is entirely an illusion of our co-creation. Including atoms, electrons, neutrons (the triad of balance), ghosts, asparagus and you and I.

If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.

I don't think patience will be enough because it will more than likely never happen. Furthermore, it's obvious elusive nature suggests that we're probably not meant to be 'bumping into it' too often, so to speak. Wouldn't that spoil the game, possibly leading many to want to abandon it for something better. Don't know.

But ...

I don't think discussions would get very far if the answer to Everything was - "it's just an illusion". We have to live within the bounds of that illusion, self-created though they may be. I'm not going to test the illusion by jumping off a cliff or thrusting my flesh into a fire. The illusion is real enough while we are immersed in it.

IOW, you trust that the collective agreement you chose to observe during your Earth Life that if you do these kinds of things, you will end up with the exact results as stipulated by the collective agreement. Said collective agreement is nothing more than the rules of the illusion.

Who sets those bounds? You do by your beliefs and definitions. You can even renegotiate the collective agreement- option not available to us until recently - by creating (switching to) a physical reality that has no gravity, or no injury...IF it is relevant to your journey of discovery.

If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.

I don't think patience will be enough because it will more than likely never happen. Furthermore, it's obvious elusive nature suggests that we're probably not meant to be 'bumping into it' too often, so to speak. Wouldn't that spoil the game, possibly leading many to want to abandon it for something better. Don't know.

It has already happened in the ET communities, many of which are ourselves from a future time - so to speak. Consciousness is the very basis of their existence, they "bump" into it as due course. The 'game' is exquisitely enhanced.