Pseudoskeptism and acceptable versus unacceptable science [split from "infant consciousness"]

LOL - don't forget that once you start with a false premise, reasoning can just go downhill! I just hope we don't end up with an experimental test of what happens in a nuclear explosion.

David

Regarding nuclear explosions specifically...there is something quite haunting about the Hiroshima Shadows, perhaps a reminder that our technology can unleash what I would consider "evil" or at least "negative" without giving any definitive political statement on the use of nuclear weapons in WWII...but I do wonder if such a violent affront to Nature would affect souls in some way...

More generally I'm not convinced that a soul is completely unchanged by the "physical" world, given that it seems a variety of rituals and practices seem to "mix in" that which is considered physical and that which is mental. See also the research on Psi and geographic location, birthmarks potentially corresponding to wounds in CORTs, etc.

Admittedly I don't think of myself as a Dualist in the strict metaphysical sense, though I do think there is something important in the difference between the "spiritual" side of reality (which seems like many "places" to me) and our existence in bodies upon this planet. But I am more amenable to the idea there is, if not Monism, and least overlap in these substances...

Admittedly I don't think of myself as a Dualist in the strict metaphysical sense, though I do think there is something important in the difference between the "spiritual" side of reality (which seems like many "places" to me) and our existence in bodies upon this planet. But I am more amenable to the idea there is, if not Monism, and least overlap in these substances...

I've often wondered about this. I've read NDE accounts of people exploring aspects of our physical universe from the spiritual dimensions and it doesn't seem to matter whether they are at the bottom of the ocean or the centre of the sun - the physical environment has no impact on their being. They are aware and able to observe but they have no physical fingers to poke into the pudding. 

On the other hand, I recently took another look at the Scole videos and it certainly seems as though physical "stuff" can be manifested from the non-physical. Should that surprise us? I'm not sure but from a non-dualist point of view, ALL of the physical is a manifestation of mind.

Regarding nuclear explosions specifically...there is something quite haunting about the Hiroshima Shadows, perhaps a reminder that our technology can unleash what I would consider "evil" or at least "negative" without giving any definitive political statement on the use of nuclear weapons in WWII...but I do wonder if such a violent affront to Nature would affect souls in some way...

I certainly think there is strong evil behind the piling up of nuclear weapons even in peacetime. However, that is politics.....

It is crazy to realise that science can't even formulate the question as to whether souls are destroyed permanently in such a situation.

More generally I'm not convinced that a soul is completely unchanged by the "physical" world, given that it seems a variety of rituals and practices seem to "mix in" that which is considered physical and that which is mental. See also the research on Psi and geographic location, birthmarks potentially corresponding to wounds in CORTs, etc.

Admittedly I don't think of myself as a Dualist in the strict metaphysical sense, though I do think there is something important in the difference between the "spiritual" side of reality (which seems like many "places" to me) and our existence in bodies upon this planet. But I am more amenable to the idea there is, if not Monism, and least overlap in these substances...

To me, Dualism is a powerful scientific concept which has been obfuscated by the refusal to recognise that science itself defines concerts which are ultimately fuzzy. Chemistry in particular, seems replete with concepts that are never ultimately defined because the QM would be far too involved - think for example of all those organic reaction diagrams in which small curved arrows are supposed to demonstrate electron flows!

The striking thing is that science is so down to earth practical in most things, and utterly picky about others.

David

I feel your attitude has matured enormously after being exposed to this forum and maybe also Skeptiko.

David

Is is possible for you to be more condescending David?  Just remember, you don't actually know me.  We've never spoken.

I found your writings on the Skeptiko forum to be obtuse more often than not.  Especially on the topic of politics.  I felt you did not debate in good faith AND abused your moderation authorities in a highly one-sided manner.  It was likely during this time you found me to be 'immature' I'd gather.

We've since left those things behind, I'll wager largely because we don't discuss politics here.  So without that friction you see me as having 'matured'.  And the hubris to think that either the Skeptiko forum or this one is somehow able to mold maturity is notable.

Hate to break it to you.  I'm pretty much the same guy I was 5 or 10 years ago..... just now 5 or 10 years older.

But I guess a 'thanks' is in order?  lol

Is is possible for you to be more condescending David?  Just remember, you don't actually know me.  We've never spoken.

I hesitated as to how to word my remark, but you used to side almost exclusively with conventional science. Now you seem to recognise how shallow much of that science is. I meant it as a compliment because it took me a lot longer to make the same change of viewpoint.

We don't discuss politics here, so of course I have no idea whether your views on that have developed.

David

I certainly think there is strong evil behind the piling up of nuclear weapons even in peacetime. However, that is politics.....

It is crazy to realise that science can't even formulate the question as to whether souls are destroyed permanently in such a situation.

Oh I lean toward the core of the soul being indestructible. It gets a bit tricky here because I can see a "subtle body" being destroyed but the higher aspect of a soul, which we might call the pleroma to borrow a term from the Gnostics, is immaterial in a stronger sense than being a "ghost" or "astral body" and as such truly immortal.

edit: This also gets into questions about the nature of apparitions, which I am not convinced are any more representative of the "pleroma" than the physical body was.

"The skywide realization that his soul was not in his body, but rather his body was in the cosmic immensity of his soul."
  -Attanasio

To me, Dualism is a powerful scientific concept which has been obfuscated by the refusal to recognise that science itself defines concerts which are ultimately fuzzy. Chemistry in particular, seems replete with concepts that are never ultimately defined because the QM would be far too involved - think for example of all those organic reaction diagrams in which small curved arrows are supposed to demonstrate electron flows!

The striking thing is that science is so down to earth practical in most things, and utterly picky about others.

David

As a functional point of view, wherein "Dualism" distinguishes that which can be observed/manipulated using the instruments of this world/universe and that which extends beyond such conventional science...yeah I can see what you mean as Dualism being a valuable placeholder.