People that sit on the both side what do you think about the propnet and skeptic?

There are many reasons why that is unlikely. Oleo expressed 2 in post 31.

I think the reason is that they know they would fail, so the claimants will not apply for such a task. I stand by the idea that macro PK doesn't exist, or somebody would have already proven it eventually. Or wom the Randi challenge.

Nope... we'll stay on this forum thanks, rather than what I think is a sneaky attempt to try and move it out of the Skeptic vs Proponent forum... to prevent other Skeptics contributing further...

That's just offensive, Max. Read the forum rules. Sceptics can contribute anywhere on this site.

On this topic, I think it's interesting that not only Michael Shermer but also Joe Nickell was able to bend cutlery at a "workshop," though not one of Jack Houck's. Nickell attributes the effect to the unconscious exertion of force by the participants:
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2013/07/mi...over_metal

If that is the explanation, it seem rather remarkable if the participants can do something unconsciously that is beyond their strength when they try to do it consciously.

I think it's interesting that they were both given a larger silver spoon supplied by the spoon bender, and asked to bend the bowl... we know from work hardening, that it will be dramatically harder to bend it back.

If you've ever been involved in weightlifting, you would know that knowledge that you can do-it, is a big part of the battle, as is learning the correct technique, concentration and good muscle recruitment.

You seem to think as though it is such a negative thing to have an opinion such as Oleo's. Narcissistic is a bit much, no?

Negative in so far as it only permits one to see the world not as it is, but as they wish it to be. I'm not labeling Oleo as such only that perspective. Also it's negative because emphasis is on mystery rather than knowledge.The universe as far as I can historically see is indifferent to any of the wants and needs of any living thing including humans extant and extinct.

Negative in so far as it only permits one to see the world not as it is, but as they wish it to be. I'm not labeling Oleo as such only that perspective. Also it's negative because emphasis is on mystery rather than knowledge.The universe as far as I can historically see is indifferent to any of the wants and needs of any living thing including humans extant and extinct.

It doesn't make sense for one to call someones perspective or viewpoint, as narcissistic. It is used to describe a persons negative overall character and behaviour, which is what I took issue with as your usage of it in this context tends to make you come across as arrogant and condescending.  I think you are seeing Oleo as you wish him/her to be, not as they are. 

Anyway, why can't mystery and knowledge be part of the same 'skill set'? Mystery as the motivation, but knowledge as the goal. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Maybe you are inferring bias being introduced if one has this mindset.

I think it's interesting that they were both given a larger silver spoon supplied by the spoon bender, and asked to bend the bowl... we know from work hardening, that it will be dramatically harder to bend it back.

If you've ever been involved in weightlifting, you would know that knowledge that you can do-it, is a big part of the battle, as is learning the correct technique, concentration and good muscle recruitment.

They managed to bend them because the spoons are pre-treated or aren't really made out of silver. They are props. Just make them do the same thing in a controlled environement, then we'll talk. But they won't because they would be exposed as fake.

It doesn't make sense for one to call someones perspective or viewpoint, as narcissistic. It is used to describe a persons negative overall character and behaviour, which is what I took issue with as your usage of it in this context tends to make you come across as arrogant and condescending.  I think you are seeing Oleo as you wish him/her to be, not as they are. 

Anyway, why can't mystery and knowledge be part of the same 'skill set'? Mystery as the motivation, but knowledge as the goal. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Maybe you are inferring bias being introduced if one has this mindset.

Get this. I was not a commentary towards his character.
Mystery leads nowhere if that's all one desires. In my life I've known people whom only want mystery. They know nothing more about those mysteries  today than they did decades ago.
Yes, bias....

Get this. I was not a commentary towards his character.
Mystery leads nowhere if that's all one desires. In my life I've known people whom only want mystery. They know nothing more about those mysteries  today than they did decades ago.
Yes, bias....

My mum's a bit like that, today I understand that she enjoys the searching, getting an answer is a bit of a disappointment, and most answers ain't good enough anyway, there is always another objection. They defeat the object of her enjoyment, the searching.

Sometimes I used to enjoy teasing her... I'd be about 11 years old, one day we had a lot of thunder and lightning, and knowing she was interested in and terrified of the idea of ball lightning (she used to close all the windows in case ball lightning came in through a window :-) ). I convinced her - quite easily - that I had heard that mirrors could attract the ball lightning... I rushed up to the bathroom, grabbed the bathroom mirror, went outside, and pointed it towards the lighting flashes in the sky, shouting that I would see if I could attract some ball lighting... Lol...

...at which point she became almost hysterical, pulling me back inside the house, and belting me... I got sent to bed with no tea for my troubles.

The stories I could tell are really quite funny... getting my siblings and I to make pyramids to place on our heads, to direct special energy into us... the picture of us sitting in the dining room. all with pyramids on our heads... Lol..

I got sent to bed with no tea for my troubles.

I'll bet she brought you up a little bit of something later on, Max ?

I'll bet she brought you up a little bit of something later on, Max ?

I can't remember Tim, I just remember the incident and the pronouncement of punishment.