New video - Neuroscientific Evidence: Irreducible Mind (Part 1)

I've linked below, to the very interesting paper mentioned in the video, about the lady with dissociative identity disorder (DID) who had multiple sighted and blind personalities, which could be alternated in seconds, by the lady's psychotherapist calling on the desired personalities name.

The researchers decided to measure the lady's EEG during the psychotherapy sessions (during hypnosis I believe), using a patterned Visual Evoked Potential (VEP) recording system... with the active electrode placed at the back of the head nearest the visual cortex...

...measuring nice repeatable VEP's for the sighted personalities...



...but surprisingly, no normal VEP's at all for the blind personalities. 



As the paper states... the cause of DID has remained somewhat controversial. Is the phenomena of different personalities, just a metaphor, merely reflecting differences in higher level cognitive processing. Obviously this paper complicates matters somewhat, as the personalities of the lady in the paper have radically different perceptual states (blind/sighted), and those perceptual states have now been shown to be correlated with early sensory information from the visual cortex???

https://thinkingdeeper.files.wordpress.c...n_2015.pdf

The TV shows I understand as nothing but fluff but curious why you wouldn't seek out mediums?

I've been - before all this Covid 19 stuff - looking to visit more and more mediums who I could at least verify as having a good reputation.

I've been to a few over the years but never found one that was convincing. My sceptical mind would always find some alternative explanation. Also, I am really put off by the kind of new-age showbiz atmosphere that surrounds the psychic set.

Was it discredited?

Persinger did believe in telepathy IIRC....

https://philosophydungeon.weebly.com/sch...inger.html

In 2005, Pehr Granqvist used equipment borrowed from Persinger himself to test 46 Swedish volunteers, but could not reproduce the "sensed presence" effect. He argues that Persinger’s experiments weren’t properly double-blinded - the participants in Persinger's studies knew what was supposed to happen, so they convinced themselves that it was happening. Granqvist didn't tell some of his participants to expect anything at all. - and they experienced nothing.

Granqvist also argues that the magnetic fields generated by the God Helmet are too weak to penetrate the skull and influence the brain.
There are other criticisms of Persinger's theory. Persinger's "sensed presence" is a very subtle phenomenon that people experience in a dark room, all by themselves, while relaxing. Real religious experience isn't usually like this. It's often not at all subtle - it's dramatic and sometimes terrifying.

https://philosophydungeon.weebly.com/sch...inger.html

Wasn’t the failed replication (if this is the same one) claimed by Persinger to possibly be due to these researchers running his computer program (which controlled the on/off timing and sequence of the magnets on his helmet) on a much faster (more modern) computer with a much faster processor...  this (Persinger claimed) caused the timing of the on/off magnetic sequences he had programmed to run via his own older computer. to become far too fast.

It was a plausible claim, I know from experience, just how fast a simple program written to run on an old PC can become, when run on a modern one. Stupidity fast. Very vaguely I seem to remember reading the letters Sent back n forth between the teams. IIRC I had the impression that the other team were unwilling to concede this point, It’s so long ago now, that my memory is probably playing tricks on me, but I recall finding the other teams responses quite aggressive, and seem to have filed the failed replication away as unsettled in my own memory.

Persengers whole theory was about *slowly* varying magnetic fields and patterns... So timing/speed that his program ran would be vital. I recall being puzzled by the responses of the other team... all they had to do was to check how fast his program had run on their equipment, compared to the timings he expected, to invalidate his rebuttal but they didn’t do that... which seemed a bit weird to me.

As I say, this is all very vague in my memory... so quite happy to be shown to be completely wrong... it no longer causes me any issues anymore, as hyperweak magnetic fields, even zero strength magnetic fields, are shown to have robust effects on behaviour etc in magnetoreception and studies... and the wider field of magnetic effects of biology too. Indeed today, it’s a big field of research...

Feedback loops don't really clarify, IMO, what you think invalidates this "other kinds of research and evidence"?

The NDE section of the forum digs into a lot of this debate, perhaps someone has posted something addressing these concerns there?

The idea they were pushing is that feedback loops in the brain are responsible for complex consciousness despite little brain activity, spontaneous savant syndrome and consciousness despite little brain being present...

To them, it's just 'the brain rewiring itself' and not evidence that the mind can influence and control the brain. It's all just 'feedback loops'. A few commenters therefore accuse him of jumping to conclusions (even thought that's exactly what they're doing and this is a 5 part documentary). 

I'm not sure about the electromagnetic experiment stuff. The only one I've heard of is the aforementioned God Helmet which had controversial results. Of course the YT comments don't cite their sources, but still. I couldn't find if such experiments have been discussed before here.

The idea they were pushing is that feedback loops in the brain are responsible for complex consciousness despite little brain activity, spontaneous savant syndrome and consciousness despite little brain being present...

To them, it's just 'the brain rewiring itself' and not evidence that the mind can influence and control the brain. It's all just 'feedback loops'. A few commenters therefore accuse him of jumping to conclusions (even thought that's exactly what they're doing and this is a 5 part documentary). 

I'm not sure about the electromagnetic experiment stuff. The only one I've heard of is the aforementioned God Helmet which had controversial results. Of course the YT comments don't cite their sources, but still. I couldn't find if such experiments have been discussed before here.

The basic nature of feedback loops is that physical output parameters of a physical process involving amplification are looped around to change the physical input parameters of that amplification process. The feedback can reduce distortion in the amplification process, change the timing of the outputs due to delays in the feedback process, etc. These parameters are all physically measurable values involving physical processes, fundamentally different in existential category from the inside experience subjective characteristics of consciousness, like qualia, thought, "knowing", intentionality, etc. Feedback loops are just variations of various physical processes and in no way answer the "Hard Problem".

I just don't see how feedback looping can be responsible for absolutely all of these conditions, including things like terminal lucidity and the placebo effect. I don't see how electromagnetic waves either being able to 'influence our decisions' means that materialism/physicalism is therefore true.

I just don't see how feedback looping can be responsible for absolutely all of these conditions, including things like terminal lucidity and the placebo effect. I don't see how electromagnetic waves either being able to 'influence our decisions' means that materialism/physicalism is therefore true.

I explained why feedback processes fundamentally can't generate consciousness, so these YT materialist skeptics are blowing smoke.

As far as magnetic fields affecting consciousness, only very partially in some areas not involving thought or willed actions (intentionality). I very much doubt that weak magnetic fields have ever been shown to cause the willed actions, intentionality, abstract thought, etc. of subjective self aware consciousness, that Penfield observed in very many brain operations to never be caused by direct electrical stimulation of any brain structure. Just involuntary movements, evoked memories, etc that the patient invariably knew to be caused by Penfield. Why could Penfield absolutely never ever cause abstract thoughts or willed actions by direct electrical stimulation? I have no reason whatsoever to doubt this accomplished neurosurgeon's extensive experience in over a thousand open brain epilepsy operations.

I explained why feedback processes fundamentally can't generate consciousness, so these YT materialist skeptics are blowing smoke.

As far as magnetic fields affecting consciousness, only very partially in some areas not involving thought or willed actions (intentionality). I very much doubt that weak magnetic fields have ever been shown to cause the willed actions, intentionality, abstract thought, etc. of subjective self aware consciousness, that Penfield observed in very many brain operations to never be caused by direct electrical stimulation of any brain structure. Just involuntary movements, evoked memories, etc that the patient invariably knew to be caused by Penfield. Why could Penfield absolutely never ever cause abstract thoughts or willed actions by direct electrical stimulation? I have no reason whatsoever to doubt this accomplished neurosurgeon's extensive experience in over a thousand open brain epilepsy operations.

I listen intently but not once have I seen details how brain =/ mind.  I think the real "hard problem" is understanding why some will kick and scratch against brain and mind are one in the same. Remember not to confuse though they are related, this with the question of what happens to the mind after death.

I listen intently but not once have I seen details how brain =/ mind.  I think the real "hard problem" is understanding why some will kick and scratch against brain and mind are one in the same. Remember not to confuse though they are related, this with the question of what happens to the mind after death.

This is pretty simple.  Equalities can be defined formerly.  It only takes one exception to negate a causal equivalence. Mental work causes logical (not natural) changes in the wet ware of the brain.  Only with the minds of living things in play, does this ever occur in the science database of phenomena.

Nowhere do dead materials (chemistry, physics, materials science) adapt to future circumstances from perceived feedback - without a serious addition of biological information. 

What about the data in the video demonstrating that mind can alter the effective response to natural sex drive, by choice?  Is there a "magic" material or force that is currently unknown that would support this causation of mental choice to physical organization?  In terms of materials science any bridge theory leads to information science - when measuring information gain?