NDEs and epileptic seizures

Anyway, what is the exact meaning of "seizures" on the EEG? How much brain/EEG activity would be needed from a materialistic point of view to allow consciousness and recollection of events happened during the CA, allowing for false visual memories to be formed after waking up?

Anyway, what is the exact meaning of "seizures" on the EEG? How much brain/EEG activity would be needed from a materialistic point of view to allow consciousness and recollection of events happened during the CA, allowing for false visual memories to be formed after waking up?

I listened to that part of the video - as far as I can tell, this would be a new finding. Certainly patients have epileptiform discharges post-cardiac arrest if they have experienced damage, such as anoxic (lack of oxygen) brain damage. But previous studies of EEGs done during cardiac arrest, haven't mentioned epileptiform activity. Those studies have shown a variety of EEG changes, from no activity to activity which may be adequate for recollection and/or awareness (depending upon type of medical event and concurrent resuscitation). 

He doesn't go into any details about how they are measuring the EEG. The picture on the slide looks like it could be a BIS monitor, and I don't know how epileptiform activity would show up on that, since the output is usually a numerical measure of "awareness" based on an algorithm. They must also be getting the lead-by-lead EEG activity from it, if it is a BIS. 

I don't know what all the abbreviations used in the slide refer to. Usually I would look for "ED" on the end of an abbreviation for "epileptiform discharges", but maybe he uses something different (as a Brit). "PD" should be "periodic discharges", "RDA" is "rhythmic delta activity", "S&W" "spike and wave", "Bsupp" might be "bilateral suppression". I'm not sure about DQPD, but I would guess that PD at the end also refers to periodic discharges. PDs and RDAs share features with EEG seizures, so he may be referring to those as "seizure and seizure-like activity". FWIW, the number of PDs, RDAs, and DQPDs adds up to 10%.

Anyways, it looks like they are doing EEG on everyone (yay!), so if there is recollection, there should be able to report on corresponding EEG activity for each case, which is very exciting. If NDE/OBEs are associated with those who fall into the MVA/Bsupp region, then it would really help support the proponent belief that these events occur during no brain activity. I think this is going to be the most important paper coming out of the AWARE study so far.

Linda

Nobody has recalled a hidden secret real-time target yet.

We've been through all this before.

Anyway, what is the exact meaning of "seizures" on the EEG? How much brain/EEG activity would be needed from a materialistic point of view to allow consciousness and recollection of events happened during the CA, allowing for false visual memories to be formed after waking up?

A seizure... (apparently because I'm not qualified to make pronouncements on the subject--- and even If I was, it wouldn't make any difference, Raf...if you don't believe what Rodin told you, you surely won't believe anyone)

…is a an abnormal change in the electrical activity in the brain. There are all different kinds of seizures and they're not pleasant except in a minority of cases. Strokes can cause seizures. A cardiac arrest is a complete stroke of the brain, so it's quite understandable that it would produce some seizures. They've never previously had EEG monitoring on patients when they were prospecting for NDE's, so I don't see why this is suddenly so important.

How does having a seizure get you up in the air (out of body) and enable you to observe the scene, sometimes through the wall and down the hall ? And even if it did, that wouldn't help materialists. Because then you would have "something" leaving the body to accomplish this observing from above (Cue Max )

EDIT : Pam Reynolds (here we go) had an incredible near death experience but there was no seizure activity at all on the EEG record throughout the operation (Sabom)

I listened to that part of the video - as far as I can tell, this would be a new finding. Certainly patients have epileptiform discharges post-cardiac arrest if they have experienced damage, such as anoxic (lack of oxygen) brain damage. But previous studies of EEGs done during cardiac arrest, haven't mentioned epileptiform activity. Those studies have shown a variety of EEG changes, from no activity to activity which may be adequate for recollection and/or awareness (depending upon type of medical event and concurrent resuscitation). 

He doesn't go into any details about how they are measuring the EEG. The picture on the slide looks like it could be a BIS monitor, and I don't know how epileptiform activity would show up on that, since the output is usually a numerical measure of "awareness" based on an algorithm. They must also be getting the lead-by-lead EEG activity from it, if it is a BIS. 

I don't know what all the abbreviations used in the slide refer to. Usually I would look for "ED" on the end of an abbreviation for "epileptiform discharges", but maybe he uses something different (as a Brit). "PD" should be "periodic discharges", "RDA" is "rhythmic delta activity", "S&W" "spike and wave", "Bsupp" might be "bilateral suppression". I'm not sure about DQPD, but I would guess that PD at the end also refers to periodic discharges. PDs and RDAs share features with EEG seizures, so he may be referring to those as "seizure and seizure-like activity". FWIW, the number of PDs, RDAs, and DQPDs adds up to 10%.

Anyways, it looks like they are doing EEG on everyone (yay!), so if there is recollection, there should be able to report on corresponding EEG activity for each case, which is very exciting. If NDE/OBEs are associated with those who fall into the MVA/Bsupp region, then it would really help support the proponent belief that these events occur during no brain activity. I think this is going to be the most important paper coming out of the AWARE study so far.

Linda

Presumably this 2014 paper by Greyson et al., entitled "Out-of-body experiences associated with seizures," is known to people here?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3923147/

Presumably this 2014 paper by Greyson et al., entitled "Out-of-body experiences associated with seizures," is known to people here?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3923147/

Interesting:

The mean score of all participants on the NDE Scale was 1.72 (SD = 1.72), with a range from 0 to 6, with none of the 100 patients meeting the standard criterion of 7 points for NDEs. The number of patients endorsing each item on the NDE Scale is presented in Table Table1.1. The most commonly reported features in association with a seizure were a sense of being out of the body and distortion of the sense of time. No patients endorsed a speeding up of their thoughts, a sense of revelation or sudden understanding, feeling of joy, sense of cosmic unity or oneness, increased sensory vividness, apparent extrasensory perception, or vision of deceased or religious spirits.

Interesting:

Also:
"Among our sample of 100 patients, 7 reported out-of-body experiences associated with their seizures. ... Most patients who reported out-of-body experiences described one or two experiences that occurred an indeterminate number of years ago ..."

Courtesy of the SPR Facebook page, here's some discussion of the talk at AwareofAware, including comments by members of this forum:
https://awareofaware.co/2019/06/10/two-s...-one-back/

I note that a member has stuck up a link to Ben Williams blog. It doesn't bother me, but there's nothing interesting; it's just me with a general comment repeating myself and of course Raf declaring seizures cause NDE's (they don't but NDE's obviously may occur during seizures)  

The Greyson paper is interesting. I've seen it before several times. Their brains were functioning; are they really out of their bodies, or are they not? Who knows ?  Out of body experiences reported with functioning brains are of no interest to cutting edge researchers because it doesn't close off the brain as an explanation.