Medium Danielle MacKinnon and what happens to our deceased pets

[Ninshub]

That's what I was trying to nuance too in my post above yours, Typoz.

I think the question is more about animals that spend their lives in what externally anyway appears to be cruel conditions because they're raised by humans for consumption (chickens, pigs, etc.).

How far down the tree does this go?  I think of the Mayflies that spawn in Michigan every June.  Lucky to live an hour before getting gobbled up by the senior foodchain "souls" that wait every year for this burst of flying calories and protein.  Not sure how they are here just to enjoy their bodies.  They are flying from moment one for their very lives.

How far down the tree does this go?  I think of the Mayflies that spawn in Michigan every June.  Lucky to live an hour before getting gobbled up by the senior foodchain "souls" that wait every year for this burst of flying calories and protein.  Not sure how they are here just to enjoy their bodies.  They are flying from moment one for their very lives.

Your comment reminded me of my working days, when the senior management tried to indoctrinate us with their fashionable business/management principles. One of the little stories they used to tell us was of the lion and the gazelle out on the African savannah. The lion must run fast to catch the gazelle, or it won't eat, and will die. The gazelle must run fast to evade its pursuer, or it will die. It doesn't matter whether you're a lion or a gazelle, you need to hit the ground running to survive. That was what counted as wisdom in management circles.

Needless to say, I utterly rejected that management bullshit, whose sole purpose was to increase our stress levels, lowering productivity and triggering untold stress-related health conditions. I just carried on in my own easy way, and got the job done despite the demotivating and demoralising background noises.

Now I don't claim to have special insight into animal thought-processes. But I do have some insight into the human condition, and know there are other, better choices of narrative. Life doesn't have to be stressful as a matter of course or routine, it can be serene and placid. Of course there are specific instances where events can intervene and disrupt things - I've been through plenty of that too.

I've probably misrepresented what was the intended meaning here, sorry about that.

Your comment reminded me of my working days, when the senior management tried to indoctrinate us with their fashionable business/management principles. One of the little stories they used to tell us was of the lion and the gazelle out on the African savannah. The lion must run fast to catch the gazelle, or it won't eat, and will die. The gazelle must run fast to evade its pursuer, or it will die. It doesn't matter whether you're a lion or a gazelle, you need to hit the ground running to survive. That was what counted as wisdom in management circles.

Needless to say, I utterly rejected that management bullshit, whose sole purpose was to increase our stress levels, lowering productivity and triggering untold stress-related health conditions. I just carried on in my own easy way, and got the job done despite the demotivating and demoralising background noises.

Now I don't claim to have special insight into animal thought-processes. But I do have some insight into the human condition, and know there are other, better choices of narrative. Life doesn't have to be stressful as a matter of course or routine, it can be serene and placid. Of course there are specific instances where events can intervene and disrupt things - I've been through plenty of that too.

I've probably misrepresented what was the intended meaning here, sorry about that.

Good read and I can relate to the management principles story.  The metaphors can be spectacular reaches in business.

For what its worth, I was speaking more to the notion of consciousness and the concept of a lifeform "enjoying its life" when I shared the Mayfly example.  The Mayflly's life seems utterly terrifying through an anthropomorphic lens.  I mean at what stage is there "enjoyment"?

With regard to the mayfly, I'm not able to respond. I've no idea how to even pretend to understand what sort of conscious experience it might have. For what it's worth, i have tried to imagine what it might be like, from a consciousness perspective, to be a tree. A long-lived tree, starting as a tiny seedling, then sapling, over the centuries becoming a mighty tree. During my attempt to visualise its consciousness the only conclusion I reached was that it would be necessary to first detach oneself from the concept of being human. It seems to me a difficult process while we're here - notwithstanding potential mediumistic interpretations or impressions.

With regard to the mayfly, I'm not able to respond. I've no idea how to even pretend to understand what sort of conscious experience it might have. For what it's worth, i have tried to imagine what it might be like, from a consciousness perspective, to be a tree. A long-lived tree, starting as a tiny seedling, then sapling, over the centuries becoming a mighty tree. During my attempt to visualise its consciousness the only conclusion I reached was that it would be necessary to first detach oneself from the concept of being human. It seems to me a difficult process while we're here - notwithstanding potential mediumistic interpretations or impressions.

Right.  That all makes sense.  That's why I struggle to process what the medium is saying about her conversation with the bull that was speaking on behalf of all animal kind.  (Presumably including Mayflies.)  The bull spoke in anthropormophic terms without any caveat regarding how different it might feel or mean to "enjoy one's life" as an animal (or Mayfly).

Its a tad too wistful for me.

Nbtruthman, I just found this post by an animal communicator on her blog that seems to directly pertain to your question:

Penelope Smith
How Do Animals Feel About Human Cruelty?

[b]Humans live much of their lives in fear of what may happen. We do not. As I stand in this field, I breathe the smell of grass and earth and feel how beautiful it all is. The sky and field are one space surrounding me with light and life. When I lie down to sleep, I dream of floating in the light of my beautiful life here and all that is beyond.[/b]

I would differ with this at least as far as our pets are concerned. It is well known that dogs and cats can be traumatized when very young, and then remain irrationally fearful for the rest of their lives. Do they pick up this deep anxiety and fear of impending calamity and suffering from their human owners?  I think this is unlikely. Or is this just a natural animal response to remembered trauma? There seems no reason to restrict this to our pets - it's a syndrome that likely also happens with wild animals and certainly humans. 

The bull in the field is a lyrical depiction, but I think it is idealized and does not recognize the complexity of animal memory and personality.

[Ninshub]

I don't know though that the words "lives in fear of what may happen" fits the experience of an animal that's been traumatized. It's surely not the same fear that projects itself into the future - it's more likely that events, contexts, trigger the traumatized animal and a behavioral and emotional response follows, but not with all the added mind stuff that tends to projects itself in the future that occurs with humans (and adds other psychological layers of suffering, like "poor me", "why is this happening", etc.). That's how I interpreted the distinction between the bull and us, including our fear of death.

[Ninshub]

I'm likely going to lose in body one of my cats in the coming weeks, months. I've gone through the painful process before but I do find it helpful to listen to videos like this.

This is another medium giving his take on it. I find it interesting listening to his view about pets going through their own life reviews and what they contain.

It's mediumship with animal spirits, so there's limits to the evidential dimension(!) but it's interesting (to me) to hear different mediumistic experiences.

I'm likely going to lose in body one of my cats in the coming weeks, months. I've gone through the painful process before but I do find it helpful to listen to videos like this.

Sorry to hear that, Ian. Cats seem to turn up for their owners quite frequently in death bed visions, don't they. They also seem to have a sensitivity to impending death (hospice cats sit on the beds of those that are about to pass).