Meditation-Induced NDEs

A 3-Year Longitudinal Study

I don't know what the odds are that they'll get a follow-up study on this, and I'm not at all familiar with these states of meditation and how they compare to "true" NDEs. But this:

Furthermore, the study indicates that it would be feasible—including ethically feasible—for future research to recruit advanced meditators in order to assess real-time changes in neurological activity during NDEs.

Is an interesting point, if nothing else.

EDIT: It isn't mentioned in the study, but I would think one could try testing for veridical OBE observations in such a state as well.

An NDE, by definition, occurs with cardiac arrest, no?

So, are these meditators stopping their hearts temporarily, somehow?

If not, then these aren't really NDEs.

An NDE, by definition, occurs with cardiac arrest, no?

The answer to your question is "No".

Here is a definition from Bruce Greyson, found in the IANDS Online NDE Course:

"Near-death experiences (NDEs) are profound psychological events with transcendental and mystical elements typically occurring to individuals close to death or in situations of intense physical or emotional danger."

Note the last part of that definition, "intense physical or emotional danger".

As I've frequently pointed out, NDEs can occur in all physical states, from the brain completely non-functioning during cardiac arrest, right through to the brain functioning completely normally, in a person in physical good health.

The NDE-cardiac-arrest group represents a subset chosen for study, particularly by people such as Dr Sam Parnia. But they certainly don't represent the entirety of the phenomenon. For example there are reports of someone such as a mountaineer falling towards certain death undergoing an NDE, and then through some fortuitous circumstance landing somehow without being harmed, at least there may be broken bones and so on, but there was no loss of consciousness or cardiac function involved.


For those who haven't already seen that course, it's worth taking a little time to go through it. It does require a browser with Adobe Flash enabled.
https://iands.org/resources/education/on...rse19.html

I do feel that such meditation techniques are valuable and that more attention should be given to them. As a way of gaining understanding of reality they must surely be at least as valuable as the LHC, and without needing its vast budget and resources.

In relation to OOBEs, yes. this could be an area worth looking at in this context, though it wouldn't be the first such attempt.

On the other hand, the idea of using such techniques to study brain function during an NDE seems more than a little disingenuous. What they are actually studying is brain function during meditation. And I can only repeat the point I've made not once, not twice, but many times on these forums: NDEs occur during all brain states from completely normal function to completely non-functional. The inevitable conclusion is that NDEs are independent of brain function.

Ian started a thread on this here previously.

https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-m...xperiences

For what it's worth, I don't think we can learn anything useful from this unless as Typoz says, we can determine (if it's reported) whether the out of body experience was real. Who is the study aimed at ? (As I commented previously), it seems to me to be yet another (cynical ?) attempt to place the experience in the brain and as Typoz and Valmar hinted at, the really interesting/important NDE's occur when there is no brain function.

An NDE, by definition, occurs with cardiac arrest, no?

So, are these meditators stopping their hearts temporarily, somehow?

If not, then these aren't really NDEs.

I basically agree, Valmar. But I also prefer Parnia's definition ADE (actual death experience) now. The term NDE has been hijacked sadly; you see it used everywhere to refer to anything from a person falling downstairs (for instance) or the understandable anxiety of the passengers on an aeroplane that lost the function of one of it's engines. 

Mischievous sceptics (I suspect) love it. They love to make a mockery of the phenomenon, knowing full well that associating NDE's with the "comical" and the "ridiculous" will help to discredit their importance.

I basically agree, Valmar. But I also prefer Parnia's definition ADE (actual death experience) now. The term NDE has been hijacked sadly; you see it used everywhere to refer to anything from a person falling downstairs (for instance) or the understandable anxiety of the passengers on an aeroplane that lost the function of one of it's engines. 

Mischievous sceptics (I suspect) love it. They love to make a mockery of the phenomenon, knowing full well that associating NDE's with the "comical" and the "ridiculous" will help to discredit their importance.

Agreed.

ADE seems like a good term for a Death Experience involving cardiac arrest with a subsequent OBE.

It does feel less vague than NDE ~ especially now that "NDE" has been hijacked as you've stated.