India scientists dismiss Einstein theories, Newton (and more)

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Some academics at the annual Indian Science Congress dismissed the findings of Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein.

Hindu mythology and religion-based theories have increasingly become part of the Indian Science Congress agenda.

But experts said remarks at this year's summit were especially ludicrous.

The 106th Indian Science Congress, which was inaugurated by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, runs from 3-7 January.

The head of a southern Indian university cited an old Hindu text as proof that stem cell research was discovered in India thousands of years ago.

G Nageshwar Rao, vice chancellor of Andhra University, also said a demon king from the Hindu religious epic, Ramayana, had 24 types of aircraft and a network of landing strips in modern day Sri Lanka.

Another scientist from a university in the southern state of Tamil Nadu told conference attendees that Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein were both wrong and that gravitational waves should be renamed "Narendra Modi Waves".

Dr KJ Krishnan reportedly said Newton failed to "understand gravitational repulsive forces" and Einstein's theories were "misleading". ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46778879
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From the same article:


Quote:Critics said that while ancient texts should be read and enjoyed - it was nonsense to suggest they represented science.
The Indian Scientific Congress Association expressed "serious concern" at the remarks.

"We don't subscribe to their views and distance ourselves from their comments. This is unfortunate," Premendu P Mathur, general secretary of Indian Scientific Congress Association, told the AFP news agency.

"There is a serious concern about such kind of utterances by responsible people."


So this seems like the usual affair of people disagreeing with each other over questions of what is settled or unsettled in history. This seems more like Politics than Alternative Views of Science as it isn't clear the disagreement is about science so much as who made what discovery?

That said, a better political strategy to promote national/religious pride would've been to focus on things that are definitively part of the historical record such as varied physicists support for ancient Indian philosophical/metaphysical ideas:

- Schroedinger's referral of Hindu philosophy at the end of What is Life, which was one of the early texts suggestive of quantum biology. As well these quotes:

This life of yours which you are living is not merely a piece of this entire existence, but in a certain sense the whole; only this whole is not so constituted that it can be surveyed in one single glance. This, as we know, is that sacred, mystic formula which is yet really so simple and so clear; tat tvam asi, this is you. Or, again, in such words as “I am in the east and the west, I am above and below, I am this entire world.

The unity and continuity of Vedanta are reflected in the unity and continuity of wave mechanics. This is entirely consistent with the Vedanta concept of All in One.

- Bohr - "I go into the Upanishads to ask questions." This is mentioned in Prothero's God is Not One, but it doesn't seem to be referenced.

- Tesla's friendship with Swami Vivekananda, which I've only read about in passing but there was some possible exchange of ideas there. More on that at the Tesla Society site.

- The Nobel physicist Brian Josephson's discussions w/ Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

- Ulrich Mohrhoff's dedication to the ideas of Sri Aurobindo, so much so that he created the Anti Matters publication.

There are also the varied Idealist physicists whose ideas about reality are very similar to certain Vedic/Hindu metaphysics - see the recent Sci Am article as an example.

And so on. It does little good to make claims of ancient civilizations that are hotly contested when more recent history has more value in that the claims are easily verified.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


(This post was last modified: 2019-01-08, 12:47 AM by Sciborg_S_Patel.)
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(2019-01-08, 12:26 AM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: So this seems like the usual affair of people disagreeing with each other over questions of what is settled or unsettled in history. This seems more like Politics than Alternative Views of Science as it isn't clear the disagreement is about science so much as who made what discovery?

Fair point, but there does seem to some extent to be disagreement about science - enough that I think the thread belongs OK in "Alternative views" - take these quotes, for example (emboldening mine):

Quote:Another scientist from a university in the southern state of Tamil Nadu told conference attendees that Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein were both wrong and that gravitational waves should be renamed "Narendra Modi Waves".

Dr KJ Krishnan reportedly said Newton failed to "understand gravitational repulsive forces" and Einstein's theories were "misleading".
(2019-01-08, 12:47 AM)Laird Wrote: Fair point, but there does seem to some extent to be disagreement about science - enough that I think the thread belongs OK in "Alternative views" - take these quotes, for example (emboldening mine):

If there are actual papers, that seems like Alternative Views, but the article is about the BJP spreading claims that go against consensus reading of history.

What more can we do with the article but speculate as to why these claims are being made, which is a political discussion - or so it seems to me?
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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(2019-01-08, 12:47 AM)Laird Wrote: enough that I think the thread belongs OK in "Alternative views"

Then again, these areas of disagreement don't seem to relate indirectly to psi and the subject matter of this forum, so I'll relocate the thread again, to "Other Topics".
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(2019-01-08, 12:50 AM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: What more can we do with the article but speculate as to why these claims are being made, which is a political discussion - or so it seems to me?

OK... are you suggesting then that the thread best belongs in the hidden "Non-Psi Related Scientific Controversies" sub-forum?
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Or simply in the hidden "Political Discussions" sub-forum?
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(2019-01-08, 12:51 AM)Laird Wrote: Then again, these areas of disagreement don't seem to relate indirectly to psi and the subject matter of this forum, so I'll relocate the thread again, to "Other Topics".

I guess it could any of the suggestions...It's an ongoing issue of controversy but it does seem to be an issue related to political rather than parapsychology  disagreements judging from a quick bit of googling:

‘Chauvinistic claims’: Embarrassed Indian scientists protest irrational comments at Science Congress

Quote:The Indian Science Congress does not have particularly exacting standards, said Shastri, explaining that “high quality” scientists from within India tend to shun it. She recalled that Nobel winner Venkatraman Ramakrishnan had called the forum a “circus”. But it continues to be a high-profile event because it has the government’s endorsement and funding, she said. Inaugurated by the prime minister, it invites well-known scientists, even Nobel laureates, from abroad.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


(This post was last modified: 2019-01-08, 12:57 AM by Sciborg_S_Patel.)
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(2019-01-08, 12:56 AM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I guess it could any of the suggestions...It's an ongoing issue of controversy but it does seem to be an issue related to political rather than parapsychology  disagreements judging from a quick bit of googling

Yep, fair call - I've gone ahead and moved it to "Other Topics" as that seems to be the broadest category which fits; I imagine that opinions on where it best fits might vary so sticking it in the broadest tent seems safest.
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