If qualia is real, why does it have to be paranormal

Illusions refer to a sensory deception.

How can there be no one being fooled?

Perversely, these types of incredulous comments may simply just demonstrated how irresistibly good the illusion is.

That said, I’m generous enough to think you understand Sparky’s point perfectly well enough, but have retreated into linguistic pedantry as a form of rhetoric deflection.

You can't be serious, Malf ? You are actually suggesting that the phenomenon of NDE is being recreated and nurtured by book sales? That is so cynical it beggars belief. I'm not even going to bother explaining why. I don't think that comment is even worthy of you and your previous >closedmindedscepticism< , I mean you don't really believe that, surely ? You're not an idiot, Malf.

To be clear: 

a. When I said ‘market’ I just meant where there is a demand there will be a supply. I wasn’t referring to books or even dollars… Although some have tapped that nicely. And…

b. I am an idiot.

Perversely, these types of incredulous comments may simply just demonstrated how irresistibly good the illusion is.

That said, I’m generous enough to think you understand Sparky’s point perfectly well enough, but have retreated into linguistic pedantry as a form of rhetoric deflection.

Your first line is again one of the classic defenses of this absurdity - "The fact that you think I'm wrong ACTUALLY shows I'm right."

As for the second line, I'm less interested in your generosity than an actual defense of how something can be an illusion without anyone there to be fooled.

In fact, I thought you became a panpsychist - for awhile at least - because of how inadequate this idea of consciousness from that which has no consciousness is?

To be clear: 

a. When I said ‘market’ I just meant where there is a demand there will be a supply. I wasn’t referring to books or even dollars… Although some have tapped that nicely. And…

b. I am an idiot.

a. How does that work with the scientific study of cardiac arrest patients in multi-center studies ? Parnia has created/organised the demand but he's not getting sufficient supplies (numbers) as the vast majority die before they can be interviewed.

b. LOL.   No, you're not, but you've got a good sense of humour and I like that !

Your first line is again one of the classic defenses of this absurdity - "The fact that you think I'm wrong ACTUALLY shows I'm right."

As for the second line, I'm less interested in your generosity than an actual defense of how something can be an illusion without anyone there to be fooled.

In fact, I thought you became a panpsychist - for awhile at least - because of how inadequate this idea of consciousness from that which has no consciousness is?

Yes, realisation of the strength of the phenomenon can be quite disconcerting…. I’m not interested in the linguistics. Words have always been co-opted and machined into imprecise usage to convey an idea. Pursuing this with faux confusion is beneath your level of argument. I know you understand the point.

Sure panpsychism. Research consistently reveals matter to be magical enough to fudge that -ism through.

a. How does that work with the scientific study of cardiac arrest patients in multi-center studies ? Parnia has created/organised the demand but he's not getting sufficient supplies (numbers) as the vast majority die before they can be interviewed.

b. LOL.   No, you're not, but you've got a good sense of humour and I like that !

a. There still seems to be a small and faithful group of followers of his work. That’s the market. 

b. Love you too x

Please, you constantly insinuate others - even professional scientists - who disagree with you have been tempted away from intellectual truths. Even in this very thread you're insulting the proponents in this forum.

The number of times you've called the neuroscientist Tallis a "damned fool" for not believing in the materialist-faith...you've yet to give us an actual counter-argument. You don't win arguments because you simply lack an[y] genuine intellectual stance, you just insist you are right over & over.

And you're forgetting the personal attack you made against Maaneli, a pro-Psi physicist, but I guess that wasn't to him directly. Instead you ran away to JREF to call him a "woo-monger of the worst kind" behind his back in hopes of getting physicists there to come to Skeptiko. Instead they laughed you off and said they weren't interested in wasting their lives like you were.

One would think in the intervening years you'd learn some physics. Instead you managed to think field effects referred to Psi on this forum...

As for Shermer, here's some of his thoughts:

 About Tallis your hero. I did not say he was categorically stupid. Just specifically stupid for thinking the brain does not create consciousness. As for Maaneli he was a narcissist certain of his infallibility. He earned my derision. You still do not know the mind of Shermer.

Illusions refer to a sensory deception.

It can, but that is not the way it is used here.

How can there be no one being fooled?

If someone says consciousness is an illusion, i don't think that means it does not happen.
It means it probably does not happen the way you think it does, that is the illusion part.

What i mean by 'nobody being fooled' is that the self is an element of the story (for lack of a better word) of an experience, not a separate entity to which the story is told.
IMO the illusion is that consciousness is immediate in the moment, it is not, it is an edited version of what happens in the real world. 
I am not asking to agree, but at least try to understand what i am saying.
   

I think those of the physicalist faith just use the word "illusion" inappropriately, because what they want to believe is somehow consciousness can be reduced to the physical. This makes no obvious sense, so then consciousness has to be "illusory" to make their religious belief work.

It's not much different than creationists who say Satan put fossils in the ground to trick us.

Feeling better now?

You know Sci real life is just high school with money which you have clearly demonstrated today

I can't tell for sure but this doesn't seem like an apology to Maaneli...

Another round of classic Steve - jump into the thread with insults about proponents, has to confront facts about his own flaws, tries to make it seem the people criticizing him are at fault.

a. There still seems to be a small and faithful group of followers of his work. That’s the market. 

b. Love you too x

There'll be a lot more followers (fans) when he gets his first hit (record) Malf, I've seen how it works. When he's got enough for an album, he'll be an international superstar (Nobel prize). New Zealand will be rocking...