Evidence for paranormal aspects in NDEs

No, AWARE I only reported one OBE with veridical information and it happened in a room that wasn't prepared (no target = can't see what isn't there).

Thanks.

Are you using the term OBE to intentionally differentiate from NDE?

1 out of how many NDEs?

As a shortcut for me having to read all of the literature Horror , I have a question...
Do any of these studies include cases where a person in OBE or NDE, DID see the laptop (or whatever mechanism was created to send the a message), did look at it, and simply got the wrong, or nonsensical information?

Neither, none of the above. Some of the patients who had an NDE reported accurate veridical information, But since they had no idea that they were 'supposed to' cooperate by falling ill and having an NDE at the right place and the right time, and then look for a specific target, there was no opportunity to do so. You've heard of the difficulty of herding cats? Trying to do so with seriously ill patients is much harder.

I ask because in his book Multidimensional Man,  Jurgen Zewie has documented cases where the information was actually different when viewed from an NDE state. So if this is the case, there really three possibilities: subject didn't notice the note (a Miss), subject read the note and reported correctly (a Hit), and lastly, the subject read the note and reported it incorrectly (a Near Miss?).

Yes, I've read something similar regarding OBE research.

However an NDE isn't the same in that the OBE participant has specific goals, The NDEer doesn't even know anything about the experiment until afterwards.

Thanks.

Are you using the term OBE to intentionally differentiate from NDE?

1 out of how many NDEs?

I meant veridical OBEs during NDEs. Only a combination of both could produce a hit that supported the hypothesis.

There were 140 survivors out of a pool of 2,000+ patients (ridiculous recruitment standards that were corrected for AWARE II) that were interviewed, out of which 9 reported NDEs. One reported an OBE and another some sort of awareness of the environment that could not be elaborated due to the severity of his condition.

Edit:If you are wondering why the recruitment standards were ridiculous, it's because they also counted the patients that died to bolster the tally.

I think that unfortunately it is quite likely that experimental studies like AWARE will never and can never make a conclusive case no matter how long they are continued, and at no matter how many hospitals. Despite a large and convincing body of anecdotal veridical cases that meet a lot of common sense evidential standards, such as are documented in The Self Does Not Die. The problem is, it is as if this phenomenon (along with other forms of dramatic paranormal phenomena) just doesn't want to be pinned down with some form of repeatable laboratory experiments. When it is attempted to pin them down, it just doesn't work - deep veridical NDEs either don't happen at all or always in rooms without the experimental apparatus. It is as if the "powers that be" want to maintain a certain uncertainty, with the phenomena only exhibiting themselves spontaneously in life, in such a way that there is never conclusive scientific proof they actually occurred as reported. It would be interesting to speculate why this should be, whether it is a conscious and deliberate plan, or merely the way things are, like quantum mechanical uncertainty.

You have to remember this time (Aware 2)  that every (or the majority of) cardiac arrest(s) will have a target. Personally, I just think it's a matter of time until the first hit. Some meticulous old buffer (probably a train spotter) will be curious enough to make a mental note of that unusual picture on a pole and when he wakes up.....

As a shortcut for me having to read all of the literature Horror , I have a question...
Do any of these studies include cases where a person in OBE or NDE, DID see the laptop (or whatever mechanism was created to send the a message), did look at it, and simply got the wrong, or nonsensical information?

I ask because in his book Multidimensional Man,  Jurgen Zewie has documented cases where the information was actually different when viewed from an NDE state. So if this is the case, there really three possibilities: subject didn't notice the note (a Miss), subject read the note and reported correctly (a Hit), and lastly, the subject read the note and reported it incorrectly (a Near Miss?).

No. As far as I'm aware the only patient who has ever reported an OBE in an area with a hidden target, is Penny Sartori's patient 10.

You have to remember this time (Aware 2)  that every (or the majority of) cardiac arrest(s) will have a target. Personally, I just think it's a matter of time until the first hit. Some meticulous old buffer (probably a train spotter) will be curious enough to make a mental note of that unusual picture on a pole and when he wakes up.....

Yes, it will happen.

And then there will be claims that someone else saw it and told the patient of it, or, or, or.  Skeptic

Do you really think a positive result will be embraced by material science?  ROFL 

I think this work is important, but I have no illusions about who will mostly benefit, and it isn't the science community as a whole. It's the average seeker. The crazy truth is, there is already enough evidence to convince that person today.

I meant veridical OBEs during NDEs. Only a combination of both could produce a hit that supported the hypothesis.

There were 140 survivors out of a pool of 2,000+ patients (ridiculous recruitment standards that were corrected for AWARE II) that were interviewed, out of which 9 reported NDEs. One reported an OBE and another some sort of awareness of the environment that could not be elaborated due to the severity of his condition.

Edit:If you are wondering why the recruitment standards were ridiculous, it's because they also counted the patients that died to bolster the tally.

"and another some sort of awareness of the environment that could not be elaborated due to the severity of his condition."

It was a woman named Vanessa, apparently. Her report is still very remarkable IMHO even though the "sceptics" ignored it. 

At the beginning, I think I heard the nurse say ‘dial 444 cardiac arrest’. I felt scared. I was on the ceiling looking down. I saw a nurse that I did not know beforehand who I saw after the event. I could see my body and saw everything at once. I saw my blood pressure being taken whilst the doctor was putting something down my throat. I saw a nurse pumping on my chest saying "Come on Vanessa, come on Vanessa!" I saw blood gases and blood sugar levels being taken but it did not hurt (it usually does when I'm awake)

"and another some sort of awareness of the environment that could not be elaborated due to the severity of his condition."

It was a woman named Vanessa, apparently. Her report is still very remarkable IMHO even though the "sceptics" ignored it. 

At the beginning, I think I heard the nurse say ‘dial 444 cardiac arrest’. I felt scared. I was on the ceiling looking down. I saw a nurse that I did not know beforehand who I saw after the event. I could see my body and saw everything at once. I saw my blood pressure being taken whilst the doctor was putting something down my throat. I saw a nurse pumping on my chest saying "Come on Vanessa, come on Vanessa!" I saw blood gases and blood sugar levels being taken but it did not hurt (it usually does when I'm awake)

Of course they ignored it:
1- it doesn't support their contention
and
2- it apparently wasn't on video tape,,, (as if that would really make ANY difference)

Yes, it will happen.

And then there will be claims that someone else saw it and told the patient of it, or, or, or.  Skeptic

Do you really think a positive result will be embraced by material science?  ROFL 

I think this work is important, but I have no illusions about who will mostly benefit, and it isn't the science community as a whole. It's the average seeker. The crazy truth is, there is already enough evidence to convince that person today.

Do you really think a positive result will be embraced by material science?

Dogmatic materialists ? Absolutely not, it's anathema to them. 

I think this work is important, but I have no illusions about who will mostly benefit, and it isn't the science community as a whole. It's the average seeker. The crazy truth is, there is already enough evidence to convince that person today.

I agree and it's hard to know what would or might happen. Maybe once the evidence becomes sufficient it will change the world for the better (maybe). Then again the way the world is going, the knowledge could all be lost in a puff of smoke and then it's back to square one.

Of course they ignored it:
1- it doesn't support their contention
and
2- it apparently wasn't on video tape,,, (as if that would really make ANY difference)

It's kind of odd (at least it is to me) how anyone could read that little OBE report from Vanessa and not be impressed by it. Every way I look at it, it's impossible to explain unless of course it didn't happen that way.