Debate and Discussion about NDEs with Dr Jan Holden and Steve McRae

Very interesting and lengthy discussion (nearly 2 hours long), with some criticisms of materialism/physicalism from both sides. Steve McRae seems to be quite open-minded but he does not believe in the supernatural/paranormal apparently. However, he is a critic of New Atheism and folks like Matt Dillahunty and his 'Athiest Experience' podcast, as well as of rigid materialism. Hell, he even disagrees with several pseudo-skeptical retorts to things like veridical NDEs.

They spend some time discussing the questions asked and points made in the live chat as well, such as a question asked about the DMT theory.

Just finished watching the stream, and unfortunately an irrational pseudo-skeptic joined their live chat insisting that NDEs 'are a product of the brain' and he's 'on the side of the professionals and experts', probably not realising Jan Holden is a professional/expert on NDEs. It's bizarre to me how the majority in that live chat were all largely respectful and then, of course, some as*hole has to come along and ruin everything. He was promptly corrected on this fortunately, including this appeal to authority and conflating proof with evidence (he also tried to make a false equivalency to creationism).

It irritated both me and Darren evidently, as well as the host. The skeptic argued from ignorance to a degree, but I'd argue he also argued from arrogance, if that makes sense, such as him saying that "no non-natural phenomena has ever been verified". Well first, define 'natural', and consider that what isn't materialistic/physicalistic does not mean it isn't 'natural'. 

Trouble was is that the pseudo-skeptic hadn't really been paying attention and only joined in the last third of the stream. Why would you start making bold and ignorant claims while clearly being unfamiliar with the topic and the rest of the video? Their discussions responding to these 'Leophilius' and 'Macabre Malefica' (the pseudo-skeptic/skeptic) did lead into a discussion about these online skeptics. When they moved briefly onto the parapsychological subjects, Leophilius immediately said this

Believing that psychic precognition is real is just an admission that magic is real, which is childish.

Speaks volumes really. He didn't listen to anything they had to say, just dismissed it with the wishful thinking argument and that it's all 'woo'...Novella and Carroll 'destroyed' Eben Alexander in that debate from years ago...Alexander lied about his coma...the model of the mind is incomplete blah blah blah...

He completely disregarded the majority of what Jan Holden was saying funnily enough, including her explanation that saying consciousness not being produced by the brain isn't necessarily 'magical'. No wonder Darren is sick of confrontations when he's having to deal with morons like that who clearly don't know that much about what they're talking about.

Edit: After speaking with Seeking I, turns out he reached out to the main skeptic in question I criticise here for a debate. He never got back to him.