Contentious posts split out of The Telepathy Tapes

[Laird]

I don't think the accusation of bigotry is warranted?

Here's what started that chain of responses:

none of the Autistic people I have seen are telepathic.

Yet, when pressed, Valmar then says that there's no way those people could "confirm or deny" telepathy.

In other words, he was bullshitting about the autistic people he's "seen" not being telepathic: he just presumes them not to be telepathic. That's textbook bigotry.

@Valmar, your own responses don't deserve a response in turn, except for this:

I listen

Which episodes in particular have you listened to, and how far exactly into them did you get? Be specific and precise.

@Valmar - I do think you would agree it is at the least *possible* that in the pool of patients with apraxia we may find a higher concentration of telepaths? With all [due] respect to your concerns I do think it would be fallacious to claim that this possibility should be dismissed before looking at research. I would even compare this to the possibility that psychedelics confer telepathy, as there are people who think that is also impossible.

Frankly, I don't know either way ~ more research, rigorous research, is needed, I quite agree. It's why I think parapsychologists and telepathic psychics are the ones who should head such a study, because they are the ones who the necessary knowledge and understanding to know how to conduct one.

I do not dismiss any of it out of hand, because it is possible. no doubt ~ many things are, without question. The problem with possibilities is that many things can be possible ~ but we first need to actually statistically confirm that it is at least higher in a meaningful way that exceeds chance. But the problem with statistics is that you need a large enough group of subjects... brain scan studies all suffer from low sample sizes, and a small worry is that this sort of project would have a similar issue.

I am perhaps just more wary of just accepting it without much question, given some of the stuff I've seen on social media and the like. There is a desire by many to be different from "normal people", and it's that sort of thing that worries me. Some might project it onto others without good reason, and that also worries me.

Here's what started that chain of responses:

Yet, when pressed, Valmar then says that there's no way those people could "confirm or deny" telepathy.

In other words, he was bullshitting about the autistic people he's "seen" not being telepathic: he just presumes them not to be telepathic. That's textbook bigotry.

I think someone can make an erroneous claim without being a bigot? 

Also looking at @Valmar 's replies to me, it doesn't seem to me that he is saying a disability such as apraxia makes someone incapable of telepathy.

I would agree if someone said such individuals simply don't have the right mental capacity to manifest Psi that would be bigotry but it doesn't seem to me this was the intention. I just think we should be wary of accusing someone of prejudice when they may simply have been misunderstood due to the nature of Internet communication.

Frankly, I don't know either way ~ more research, rigorous research, is needed, I quite agree. It's why I think parapsychologists and telepathic psychics are the ones who should head such a study, because they are the ones who the necessary knowledge and understanding to know how to conduct one.

I do not dismiss any of it out of hand, because it is possible. no doubt ~ many things are, without question. The problem with possibilities is that many things can be possible ~ but we first need to actually statistically confirm that it is at least higher in a meaningful way that exceeds chance. But the problem with statistics is that you need a large enough group of subjects... brain scan studies all suffer from low sample sizes, and a small worry is that this sort of project would have a similar issue.

I am perhaps just more wary of just accepting it without much question, given some of the stuff I've seen on social media and the like. There is a desire by many to be different from "normal people", and it's that sort of thing that worries me. Some might project it onto others without good reason, and that also worries me.

How would you compare these claims to the claims that psychedelics can unlock telepathic - among other - abilities?

It just seems to me there is a parallel here where we have claims being made that are difficult to assess from the outside?

Yet, when pressed, Valmar then says that there's no way those people could "confirm or deny" telepathy.

Given that parapsychologists spend years on a single experiment just to get a result that passes the threshold for being above chance, do you expect me to not question the rigorousness of the Telepathy Tapes statements?

In other words, he was bullshitting about the autistic people he's "seen" not being telepathic: he just presumes them not to be telepathic. That's textbook bigotry.

I'm sorry, but... what? I consider it on the same level as believing that random people on the street as being telepathic ~ what should I presume that any individual is telepathic?

How is not presuming that any Autistic person I've seen is telepathic "bigotry"??? That logic is... very dubious at best.

I just don't want to presume to confer skills or abilities on a group just because they have certain qualities.

That just feels... odd.

Which episodes in particular have you listened to, and how far exactly into them did you get? Be specific and precise.

Do you really expect me to remember that level of detail??? I barely remember what I did a week ago, except if it was emotionally-heightened like some of my tabletop roleplaying game sessions.

I don't even remember most of Rupert Sheldrake's lectures ~ and those fascinate me. Not much specific sticks in my mind at this bit of my life. Too much silent noise in my mind.

[Laird]

I think someone can make an erroneous claim without being a bigot? 

You're giving cover. The nature of the error was bigotry: a presumption against a class of people.

Do you really expect me to remember that level of detail???

Right, so, you're unwilling even to let us know how far into the podcasts you got.

You're bullshitting.

Also looking at @Valmar 's replies to me, it doesn't seem to me that he is saying a disability such as apraxia makes someone incapable of telepathy.

I never stated nor implied that, I think. I just don't see why it would strengthen or weaken a chance of telepathy ~ telepathy is a mental capability, but it can also be affected by one's physical state ~ energy levels, body health, etc ~ and mental wellbeing ~ emotions and beliefs. (I've seen some people online worry because they used to be telepathic ~ but then they say it apparently vanished for them. Which suggests to me that telepathy as a emotional component.)

I would agree if someone said such individuals simply don't have the right mental capacity to manifest Psi that would be bigotry but it doesn't seem to me this was the intention. I just think we should be wary of accusing someone of prejudice when they may simply have been misunderstood due to the nature of Internet communication.

Telepathy doesn't seem to depend on "mental capacity" so much as one's emotions, frankly. (Depression can shut me off from my spirit companions getting through to me, and anxiety and stress can muddle what they're trying to communicate sometimes. I can even unwittingly block them out when I am feeling emotionally turbulent ~ though shock seems to give them a clear path to me?)

I never stated nor implied that, I think. I just don't see why it would strengthen or weaken a chance of telepathy ~ telepathy is a mental capability, but it can also be affected by one's physical state and mental wellbeing. (I've seen some people online worry because they used to be telepathic ~ but then they say it apparently vanished for them. Which suggests to me that telepathy as a emotional component.)

Telepathy doesn't seem to depend on "mental capacity" so much as one's emotions, frankly. (Depression can shut me off from my spirit companions getting through to me, and anxiety and stress can muddle what they're trying to communicate sometimes. I can even unwittingly block them out when I am feeling emotionally turbulent ~ though shock seems to give them a clear path to me?)

I can't recall any incidences of telepathy in my own "Deep Weird"* experiences. however I am unsure that telepathy requires certain emotional states. Just going by the literature it seems to me there is some reason to think emotional states can offer/enhance or diminish paranormal experience/capability but this isn't definitive. Some of the strongest cases seem to be independent of emotion, at least if I recall the Mesmerism cases correctly?

I think it's possible someone who has apraxia may adapt to utilize telepathy, in the way we see more "mundane" examples of mental adaptation in the face of some divergence for expected brain structure. This seems especially true if we accept the brain as a filter/transmitter of some sort, which I do think proponents have good reason to do so.

As such it does seem possible to me that the likelihood of manifesting telepathy may be tied to an individual who has apraxia, even if like you I am wary of potential abuses. As the Telepathy Tapes site itself suggests, more research seems to be required to make a definitive claim about the connection between apraxia and telepathy, though even there they note this would not be a universal claim but rather a noted correlation.

*I use this term because many happened at such a young age I accept they may [not] have been real or [in cases that happened when I was older] they are not absolute proof of anything even to me...however they have fueled my lifelong interest in these topics.

You're giving cover. The nature of the error was bigotry: a presumption against a class of people.

I think there's a difference between "giving cover" and noting someone has potentially misspoken? 

I think everyone here is now in agreement that nothing about having apraxia precludes having the ability to manifest telepathy.

So, we're not allowed to be "contentious"...?