Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

I'm pretty sure I posted the clip you're looking for quite some time ago. It is quite a remarkable statement from Parnia but it obviously doesn't mean anything because although Parnia actually does the research, sceptics such as Malf, Steve and Linda know better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YckZLnRzVOA (Go to 2.24)

Tim, quite likely you have already posted it. I didn't remember Morgan Freeman, but that's just a lapse on my part.

As I suspected, that clip was posted to youtube on 4 Apr 2016.

It's strange how from my perspective I think Parnia is very reserved, but to others he is already beyond the pale. At any rate I will say his statements are backed by the corresponding research, he doesn't go for baseless speculation.

Tim, quite likely you have already posted it. I didn't remember Morgan Freeman, but that's just a lapse on my part.

As I suspected, that clip was posted to youtube on 4 Apr 2016.

It's strange how from my perspective I think Parnia is very reserved, but to others he is already beyond the pale. At any rate I will say his statements are backed by the corresponding research, he doesn't go for baseless speculation.

He is measured in his statements, Typoz, I agree but anyone with even a half open mind ought to be able to deduce the obvious from the research in general, not just Parnia's own. I wonder why they can't …... 

Hi all, I'll leave this here, it's a very interesting and recent lecture by Doctor Enrico Facco, Italian anesthesiologist and neurologist with a deep expertise also in mind philosophy. I can't translate the talk, it really is too long for me as i am currently engaged in a summer time job, but he clearly states that we know nearly nothing about the mind, about it's correlation with the brain and that metarialism, according to him, was necessary but jumped to some hasty conclusions when dealing with consciousness. He poses an accent on how "altered states of consciousness" are mistreated by the medical community, and he proposes alternative idea for them. In these altered states he includes NDEs, and it seems he doesn't find common materialistic or reductionist explanations for them to be correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhG5RkBLlgE

I would try using automatic subtitles with the automatic translation option and look into it, it is very interesting and Dr. Facco is an established medical operator of great renown, surely not someone inexperienced.

Seeing as we are so short of NDE material at the moment, I thought I'd post this. Not because it isn't interesting, it is. It's the NDE of a Brazilian neurologist, yet another high ranking medic to have one of these experiences. However, there isn't a great deal of detail. Nonetheless ….. 

In August 2016, Brazilian neurologist, Dr Joel Paulo Veiga, was due to go on a short trip with his wife and grandson. At about five thirty in the morning, he was awakened by an excruciating pain in his chest. Dr Veiga had a history of medication controlled hypertension and knew (by the severity of the pain) that he had likely suffered an aortic aneurysm.

He told his wife to drive him to the hospital where he worked but she missed the turning and he (fortunately) ended up in a nearby cardiology institute. On arrival he was immediately put on a stretcher and taken for a cat scan which proved him right. He did have an aortic dissection, which carries about a ten per cent chance of survival (apparently)

After the lengthy operation, he unfortunately contracted pneumonia and an antibiotic resistant bacteria during his time in the ICU where he lay intubated and unconscious on a respirator.

His NDE began with the observation of the room and the medics who were there. He was able to comprehend everything they were thinking/read their thoughts. He saw the cardiologist (Dr Junqueira) enter the room and shake his head whilst thinking..... (note not speaking, though)

“SE ESTA INFECÇÃO CHEGAR NA PRÓTESE, BYE, BYE”

Meaning, If the infection gets into the prosthesis (the artificial patch), Bye Bye ! 

Later when he recovered, the cardiologist confirmed that he had indeed thought this (but not expressed it verbally, naturally)

Veiga was also totally dependent on the respirator  but he also saw the doctors debating when they were going to withdraw it etc.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-fy0xxUHNQ his experience starts at about 21 minutes but of course it can only be partially understood with auto -translate.



Joel Veiga - EQM - Minha Experiência de Vida
Relato de um médico que passa por uma Experiência de Quase Morte - EQM - evidenciando a continuidade da vida depois da vida!
www.youtube.com

Wow, powerful and recent NDE experience by a medical operator, a neurologist none the less! It's really interesting when MDs have NDEs and come out enthusiastically reporting them.

It clearly must at least be a genuine and honest report. He's talking to hundreds of medical doctors and students and he's naming the cardiologist who's thoughts he (claimed to have) read, so I don't think he can be misstating,  misremembering or confabulating it.

If Dr Junqueira (the cardiologist) had actually said those words (which would have been highly unprofessional), Veiga still wouldn't have been able to hear them, because he was comatose, on a machine that was breathing for him etc.

However, if that actually had been the case (that Junqueira had actually spoken those words) then sceptics would have said that he was somehow slightly awake. Unfortunately for them, Junqueira did not speak which makes Veiga's report completely paranormal. 

It would be nice to hear what our friendly neighbourhood 'sceptics' have to say about it, by way of an explanation. Steve could get the ball rolling.

Malf ? Any sceptic interested ?

Wrong forum...

That's a good one, Max. The sceptics on here are just not sceptical enough ?  

The Lloyd Rudy case : Malf and Paul from Psiquest > The (stupid) surgeons basically fed the information to the (stupid) patient.

 The Skeptics society forum :
 
Post by Cygnus_X1 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:50 pm
It's quite right to be sceptical, but equally one ought to also be sceptical of scepticism that is just throwing out any 'It might be....' that one can think up in an attempt to appear sceptical. There does come a point where the scepticism is clutching at straws even more than the original story and one is at the level of 'swamp gas' ( which even Hynek later admitted was stretching explanations....

https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22188

[Ninshub]

Sorry to be the boring voice but... Actually it's fine if a skeptic wants to argue against a specific case in this forum - just not NDEs in general. I recognize it may take self-restraint if one is interested in that challenge.