(2019-12-18, 05:54 PM)fls Wrote: Interestingly, van Lommel's statements were already demonstrably wrong on the basis of the studies he referenced in support of those statements. We had a discussion, on the Skeptiko mind/body forum several years ago, where some of the forum members actually looked at the references (instead of taking van Lommel's word for it). It was eye-opening for them to discover that the studies did not show zero EEG activity (https://forum.mind-energy.net/forum/skep...tudy/page2 - please note that a number of posts were deleted by the mods as Alex wanted to move away from discussions about evidence). I contacted van Lommel about this and he admitted that it was his (unsupported) opinion that the EEG activity seen was inadequate, and that his statements about "flat EEG" were meant to convey that.
I agree that ongoing research, which continues to show blood flow, oxygenation, and activity associated with CPR, adds more nails to the coffin. But that coffin lid seems to have been closed quite a while ago.
We also had a discussion here earlier this year on the subjects who were in position to see hidden targets, but did not, in Penny Sartori's study.
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-d...4#pid27524
Linda
On the contrary, 80% of the patients in that poster had zero electrical activity even with prolonged CPR. The rest had seizures and discharges and a couple had some alpha waves (during prolonged CPR). How does that explain veridical out of body experiences ? They report actions and behaviour/objects which are completely out of their (even potential) gaze. They lie on their back with their eyes closed facing upwards. The only thing they could potentially see is what is directly above them even if their eyes were wide open.
And most patients in hospital don't receive CPR. See this PDF article by Keith Wood a former poster on the Skeptiko forum : https://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Wo...--1-12.pdf