(2017-09-03, 09:38 AM)jkmac Wrote: [ -> ]To your point-
Are there some (even many) who don't have the ability to perform these feats and are faking it? Of course there are. But that's the easy part. Telling the difference is, of course, the hard part.
It depends upon the level of expertise of the observer. I sat once with Gary Mannion, promised never to return. Bad ju-ju. Several ppl could see that light from iridescent objects would occasionally be blocked. Mannion's cable ties were applied to his mid-forearm not wrists leaving slack to remove his arms from. And on and on and on.
Note the left side of this night vision camera movie, Mannion has slipped his cable ties (which were applied by an associate not a sitter control), lifts his tent-cabinet, proceeds to pick up the trumpet...
Gary Mannion - Fraud
(2017-09-03, 05:35 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]It depends upon the level of expertise of the observer. I sat once with Gary Mannion, promised never to return. Bad ju-ju. Several ppl could see that light from iridescent objects would occasionally be blocked. Mannion's cable ties were applied to his mid-forearm not wrists leaving slack to remove his arms from. And on and on and on.
Note the left side of this night vision camera movie, Mannion has slipped his cable ties (which were applied by an associate not a sitter control), lifts his tent-cabinet, proceeds to pick up the trumpet...
Gary Mannion - Fraud
Btw, the Mannion case had been discussed on Skeptiko:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/fo...post-93741
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/sp...nces.3307/
Psiclops had linked this interesting video by physical medium Scott Milligan, some time before the event, criticizing the recent trends in the various forms of mediumship.
https://www.facebook.com/scott.milligan....171088623/
EDIT: A skeptic with an open mind and not ideologically bound, listening to Scott criticizing most instances of ectoplasm and a lot of current physical mediumship and his genuine concern with the current art of mediumship, should be able to tell this guy is clearly not a fraud, so that we can appraise the question "is (all) physical mediumship fraudulent?" as nonsense.
(2017-09-03, 05:58 PM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]Psiclops had linked this interesting video by physical medium Scott Milligan, some time before the event, criticizing the recent trends in the various forms of mediumship.
https://www.facebook.com/scott.milligan....171088623/
EDIT: A skeptic with an open mind and not ideologically bound, listening to Scott criticizing most instances of ectoplasm and a lot of current physical mediumship and his genuine concern with the current art of mediumship, should be able to tell this guy is clearly not a fraud, so that we can appraise the question "is (all) physical mediumship fraudulent?" as nonsense.
Scott is going on about Warren Caylor ("water to wine" inference; Caylor puts a bowl of water below is chair b/c spirit told him they wanted to experiment making this change), note how he goes on about "PM isn't what he learned, what
he thinks it should be.
He needs to grow up, this regurgitation is tied directly to Gary Mannion's fraud and he paints a broad brush over PM, a highly biased one.
Milligan is the only modern PM (is he?) that refuses to sit with other PMs. Muegge has, Caylor has, Thompson has. heh. Glass houses...
Fair point about the broad brush.
Hm. Well all those currently saying they practice physical mediumship have the opportunity to demonstrate the truth of what they're saying, to recognised authorities, in controlled conditions. Let's see it. Until then their words don't carry much weight for me, neither do imprecise statements from people whose bona fides cannot be verified.
(2017-09-03, 05:58 PM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]Psiclops had linked this interesting video by physical medium Scott Milligan, some time before the event, criticizing the recent trends in the various forms of mediumship.
https://www.facebook.com/scott.milligan....171088623/
EDIT: A skeptic with an open mind and not ideologically bound, listening to Scott criticizing most instances of ectoplasm and a lot of current physical mediumship and his genuine concern with the current art of mediumship, should be able to tell this guy is clearly not a fraud, so that we can appraise the question "is (all) physical mediumship fraudulent?" as nonsense.
Just because Scott might have criticized ectoplasm or other spiritualist mediums does not mean he is genuine. Daniel Dunglas Home was a fraudulent medium but wrote an an entire book attacking other mediums as fraudulent such as the Eddy Brothers. This is a very clever tactic to fool people.
But can you really be this naive? You listen to a Facebook conversation with the medium now you are convinced he is not a fraud? Every single physical medium investigated in the past was proven to be a fraud. I am not aware if Scott Milligan has been tested, but unlikely he is any different than the frauds he criticizes.
(2017-09-03, 06:50 PM)Obiwan Wrote: [ -> ]Hm. Well all those currently saying they practice physical mediumship have the opportunity to demonstrate the truth of what they're saying, to recognised authorities, in controlled conditions. Let's see it. Until then their words don't carry much weight for me, neither do imprecise statements from people whose bona fides cannot be verified.
Yeah I know a lot of those so-called "recognized authorities" they can go screw themselves as far as I am concerned. Most of them have never sat a PM seance but they have expert opinions on them, especially the modern PMs who won't have them in seance anyway.
Life is tough on the absurd.
(2017-09-03, 02:35 PM)Leuders Wrote: [ -> ]Jkmac the reason I am citing old pictures is because physical mediumship is really a historical matter. A thing of the past. Most physical mediums had stopped operating by the late 1940s. The majority of physical mediums were operating around 1880-1940.
It might be more accurate to say investigation into mediumship is historical; as you've pointed out, groups like the SPR exposed fraud during the time you quoted here, and focused their energies on other areas of investigation. The Scole Report is the most notable effort to critically examine the phenomena in recent memory - and, sure enough, it took criticism from
within the SPR.