(2019-06-01, 04:35 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]From what I can understand, the spoon was provided and not brought by Radin himself to this spoon bending party. So, the experiment is invalid, as the spoon could have been easily latered in many different ways before the event.
Does that mean you are going to dismiss his experience altogether?
Mmm, do you know any way of temporarily making a metal spoon behave thus: “[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039)]
the bowl momentary felt like putty, and I easily pinched the bowl over as shown. It immediately hardened up, and it felt cold throughout.”[/color]
(2019-06-01, 04:31 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry, but Uri failed in that situation just like Randi expected.
Randi seems to have edited out the part where he bent the spoon, though. Editing the data after the fact is generally known as a "questionable research practice."
I don't say the spoon-bending was genuine, but I can't see how it was done. Can you?
(2019-06-01, 04:49 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]Does that mean you are going to dismiss his experience altogether?
Mmm, do you know any way of temporarily making a metal spoon behave thus: “[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039)]the bowl momentary felt like putty, and I easily pinched the bowl over as shown. It immediately hardened up, and it felt cold throughout.”[/color]
Yes, I'm going to dismiss the experience totally. I know it sounds harsh, but science isn't conducted this way nor are serious experiments.
While I don't know how to make a metal behave like that (but i'm pretty sure you can forge or alter the structure in some ways), I know that para-researchers are often sloppy or prone to wishful thinking. Just take Ninel Kulagina, she was tested in hotel rooms where she was allowed hours of preparation. She could have rigged everything.
You wanna show me you have superpowers? Then everything, and I mean everything, you are gonna interact with needs to be handled only by the researchers. So the table, glass covers, objects to be moved should have all been provided by the research team. The claimant can tell "I can only move matches/light objects" and I'll provide him what he needs, but in no case is he/she allowed to bring his own tools in the lab or test setting, and in no way should he/she be left alone in the test area. Also, I need to have a magician in the team to look for tricks.
It seems in most, if not all, parapsychological experiments regarding major TK this wasn't done.
(2019-06-01, 04:59 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]Randi seems to have edited out the part where he bent the spoon, though. Editing the data after the fact is generally known as a "questionable research practice."
I don't say the spoon-bending was genuine, but I can't see how it was done. Can you?
No, of course, but I can look at any episode of the "dynamo" magician show and have the exact same reaction. That doesn't mean Dynamo has some superpowers, he is just very good with his tricks.
It's really the same with Uri, he failed when a common magician would have failed, yet he insists that he is, in fact, no common magician.
EDIT: also, just look at 12:10 and 12:50 minutes, you can clearly see the objects on the table shaking or rattling because Uri started kicking it, hoping to make the empty canisters move. He was using tricks, just like he tricked the guy into slightly bending the spoon by making him apply pressure on it in the right way. There wasn't any kind of superpower there, just tricks and a very embarassed/desperate guy.
RE-EDIT: Also, just check minute 6:00. You can see that one of the spoons, the middle one, already has a slight bend in it. It's the spoon he chooses for later. At most, he made the other guy bend it a bit more, but mostly he just concealed the previous bendusing the other guy's finger. Again, no magic, simple and easy tricks.
(2019-06-01, 05:04 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I'm going to dismiss the experience totally. I know it sounds harsh, but science isn't conducted this way nor are serious experiments.
I think that science is eventually going to have to reconsider its opinion on ‘anecdotal’ evidence. In this instance, it wasn’t just anyone who thought he’d seen something out of the ordinary, but a guy who knows all about running experiments, I think a very important scientist.
Anecdotal evidence is dismissed in all types of situations that I think ought to be taken much more seriously.
(2019-06-01, 05:08 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]No, of course, but I can look at any episode of the "dynamo" magician show and have the exact same reaction. That doesn't mean Dynamo has some superpowers, he is just very good with his tricks.
It's really the same with Uri, he failed when a common magician would have failed, yet he insists that he is, in fact, no common magician.
What was the point of posting a link to Randi's video at all, then?
Randi edited out the part where he appeared to succeed, so you said he had failed.
When I asked you about the other bit, you said you couldn't explain it, but you thought it was just a magic trick.
Wouldn't it have been more honest to post a link to the whole thing, and say you couldn't explain it, but you thought it was just a magic trick?
(2019-06-01, 05:33 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]What was the point of posting a link to Randi's video at all, then?
Randi edited out the part where he appeared to succeed, so you said he had failed.
When I asked you about the other bit, you said you couldn't explain it, but you thought it was just a magic trick.
Wouldn't it have been more honest to post a link to the whole thing, and say you couldn't explain it, but you thought it was just a magic trick?
Look at my edits, the tricks are exposed. The spoon was already bent (you can see it at minute 6:00) and then the other guy was applying great pressure on it in the right way to bend it further (the fingertip becoming white clearly shows the pressure).
He was also kicking the table at minutes 12:10 and 12:50 or so, you can see stuff shaking and rattling on it. He was looking for the heaviest canister, that would have moved differently from the others.
If people want to think he had powers fine, but you are getting deluded. He wasn't allowed to bring in his own props and the test failed, this shows why also Radin's experience means nothing, the spoons were provided by the magicians.
(2019-06-01, 05:44 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]Look at my edits, the tricks are exposed. The spoon was already bent (you can see it at minute 6:00) and then the other guy was applying great pressure on it in the right way to bend it further (the fingertip becoming white clearly shows the pressure).
He was also kicking the table at minutes 12:10 and 12:50 or so, you can see stuff shaking and rattling on it. He was looking for the heaviest canister, that would have moved differently from the others.
If people want to think he had powers fine, but you are getting deluded. He wasn't allowed to bring in his own props and the test failed, this shows why also Radin's experience means nothing, the spoons were provided by the magicians.
Please could you not edit your posts after people have replied to them? That can make things very confusing.
Now you're saying the "other guy" was in collusion with Uri Geller, and that he deliberately bent the spoon himself.
Do you know the identity of this "other guy" that you're accusing?
And just to clarify further, you're suggesting that the Amazing Randi provided a spoon that was already bent to test Geller with?
(2019-06-01, 06:03 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]And just to clarify further, you're suggesting that the Amazing Randi provided a spoon that was already bent to test Geller with?
Whatever the reason that spoon had been bent, it was bent. It is rather clearly shown at minute 6:00, just look well at the middle spoon.
I don't know the identity of the other man, if he was an as associate of Uri or not, but again the video doesn't lie he was pressing, and hard, on the spoon Shaft. You can see his finger tip white because he is pressing, I don't know why.