(2019-06-01, 06:19 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever the reason that spoon had been bent, it was bent. It is rather clearly shown at minute 6:00, just look well at the middle spoon.
I don't know the identity of the other man, if he was an as associate of Uri or not, but again the video doesn't lie he was pressing, and hard, on the spoon Shaft. You can see his finger tip white because he is pressing, I don't know why.
The man you're accusing of colluding with Geller is the actor Ricardo Montalban.
(2019-06-01, 06:37 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]The man you're accusing of colluding with Geller is the actor Ricardo Montalban.
It's not an accusation, Uri told him what to do so he basically followed his instructions. Maybe he was unwilling, but in the end took part to trick.
Just look at wha Dynamo can do, thst is way crazier than bending a spoon and he does it without much preparation. Yet there is nothing paranormal in it, just tricks.
(2019-06-01, 06:56 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]It's not an accusation, Uri told him what to do so he basically followed his instructions. Maybe he was unwilling, but in the end took part to trick.
This was a test to see whether Geller could bend a spoon by paranormal means.
You said "the other guy was applying great pressure on it in the right way to bend it further."
But now you say you're not accusing him of colluding with Geller.
Difficult to make sense of.
(2019-06-01, 07:07 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]This was a test to see whether Geller could bend a spoon by paranormal means.
You said "the other guy was applying great pressure on it in the right way to bend it further."
But now you say you're not accusing him of colluding with Geller.
Difficult to make sense of.
He was following Uri instructions. You clearly see he directed him on how to hold the spoon, and you can also see his fingertip becoming white due to the pressure. It's all in the video, just like Uri kicking the table trying to understand which canister has water in it (you can see the objects shake in st least two occasions). If you want to see the evidence that Uri showed clearly that he was embarassed and trying to use some desperate tricks it right there under your own eyes.
Nobody can deny minute 6:00 (already bent spoon), minute 12:10 and 12:50 (kicking the table and objects moving) and the fingertip becoming white.
(2019-06-01, 07:17 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody can deny minute 6:00 (already bent spoon),
This is indeed possible. We would have needed the camera to focus on the spoon closely before it was put into Ricardo's hand. But from the level of clarity of the image I think it's a stretch to say
conclusively it's already bent, although it gives the appearance that it
may be so. The video image just isn't clear enough to tell conclusively.
But there's enough doubt to make this demonstration pretty worthless, I'd agree with that part.
The spoon does indeed look slightly bent beforehand.
I think rather than accusing Geller of a conjuring trick or accusing Ricardo Montalban of bending the spoon for him, the appropriate accusation is one of extreme incompetence against whoever provided the props, under Randi's direction!
(2019-06-01, 04:31 PM)Raf999 Wrote: [ -> ]The lab testing was also unreliable, he had a fellow inside the lab the whole time and was allowed to get close to the equipment more than once. He could have tampered it with some sleight of hand.
Going back to this point - could you tell us which lab testing you're talking about, and give us a source for the information about the person inside the lab and the equipment that may have been tampered with?
Re: the Carson spoon demonstration. Given Geller's expertise and experience with doing these kinds of things, I tend to think he must have noticed the spoon being already bent (if it was) and then am wondering if he chose it on purpose. I'm just going on this one demonstration and it's just a question I'm raising. I wouldn't conclude anything going in this direction, but the question does raise itself. On Geller as a topic in general, I'm not informed enough to have one opinion one way or another about him.
(2019-06-01, 07:50 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]The spoon does indeed look slightly bent beforehand.
I think rather than accusing Geller of a conjuring trick or accusing Ricardo Montalban of bending the spoon for him, the appropriate accusation is one of extreme incompetence against whoever provided the props, under Randi's direction!
Probably, the fact is that Uri has been caught exploiting this to fake the spoon bending. Look at the coincidences:
He picks the middle spoon, the one that looks bend at 6:00.
He instructs the other man to put his finger in a way that covers the previous bending to the close up of the camera.
The other man is, willingly or not, applying pressure to the spoon shaft.
It's too much to not look like a trick, and surely enough to say that, in any case, this demonstration can't be taken as real. This is summed to his obvious kicks to the table looking for the water canister.
I know it hurts when a psi case gets debunked, but that is truth with Uri. I would really like Psi to be real, but right now there is no confirmed TK and while Randi surely isn't friendly he sometimes is right. And something close to this happened to ninel kulagina too, it is clear that researchers can be tricked by magicians (mostly because they don't want to take the needed precautions), and I think that was the case with her too.
There is also, after all, a reason why Randi's prize was never claimed, or TK ever demonstrated. Because they can't really do it. Unlike NDEs and a few mediumship cases, which look credible, TK and remote viewing are, as far as we know, fake or delusions.
(2019-06-01, 08:11 PM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]Re: the Carson spoon demonstration. Given Geller's expertise and experience with doing these kinds of things, I tend to think he must have noticed the spoon being already bent (if it was) and then am wondering if he chose it on purpose. I'm just going on this one demonstration and it's just a question I'm raising. I wouldn't conclude anything going in this direction, but the question does raise itself. On Geller as a topic in general, I'm not informed enough to have one opinion one way or another about him.
On this occasion some of the YouTube comments are actually quite helpful (I think that's where Raf999 picked up the information about the spoon appearing bent in the earlier shot).
One comment suggests that Geller got Ricardo Montalban to lay his finger along the length of the spoon (at 16.05) in order to conceal from the camera the fact that it was already bent. That seems plausible, but that would actually have made it harder for Montalban to bend it further if he had been trying to do that - which I don't believe.