The Hard Problem is here to stay

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(2019-09-17, 10:21 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: Yes. Or (preferably) by an entity of another, fundamentally different substance not subject to the laws of our time/space/matter/energy continuum. Where both separate continua exist, but with some interaction permitted only in certain specified ways, mostly through the interface of complex brains. Other means of interaction would be the direct manipulation of matter by powerful spiritual entities for purposes such as intelligent design intervention in evolution. 

I do prefer such an interactive dualism. I think it is much more in accordance with the empirical evidence of psychical research, including NDEs, reincarnation and mediumistic communications.

So when I see a red octagon made of metal telling me to stop, what aspects of this object are in the time/space/matter/energy continuum?
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


(2019-09-18, 06:52 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: So when I see a red octagon made of metal telling me to stop, what aspects of this object are in the time/space/matter/energy continuum?

The shape, light reflectance frequencies, letter patterns, placement and metal material of the sign are all physical, of the time/space/matter/energy continuum. The meaning of the sign and the intentionality inherent in the making and placement of the sign are non-physical. The qualia of the conscious perception of and the understanding of the meaning and intentionality of the sign are non-physical, aspects of the mind of the non-physical spiritual entity perceiving the physical stop sign through the interface of the brain.
(This post was last modified: 2019-09-18, 09:29 PM by nbtruthman.)
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(2019-09-18, 09:16 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: The shape, light reflectance frequencies, letter patterns, placement and metal material of the sign are all physical, of the time/space/matter/energy continuum. The meaning of the sign and the intentionality inherent in the making and placement of the sign are non-physical. The qualia of the conscious perception of and the understanding of the meaning and intentionality of the sign are non-physical, aspects of the mind of the non-physical spiritual entity perceiving the physical stop sign through the interface of the brain.

You are allowing that mind is nonphysical and that subsequent perception of a function of mind. I agree but take that logic a step further.

Yes, we assign physicality to environmental information coming to our nonphysical mind as we have been taught. But where is the liminal boundary? is it at an actual etheric-physical interface or is it also an assigned characteristic of perception?

If we use the collective consciousness model, first came an imagining of the circumstances that would eventually lead to a shared sense of "stop sign."

While musing with survival metaphysics, it was necessary for me to define Perceptual Agreement as an organizing principle. I define it as "[i]Personality must be in perceptual agreement with the aspect of reality with which it will associate.[/i]Given an initial state of human evolution, there would have been only the potential for stop signs. It would not be until the stop sign concept evolved into objectivity that people would have the perceptual worldview to be able to assign "stop sign" to the related environmental signal.

My point is that the "qualia of the conscious perception" does not exist full-blown, but is also evolved according to potential bounded by perceptual agreement.
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