Physicalism Redux

The opinions expressed by psi proponents. That is your prerogative.

Yeah but which opinions do you disagree with that come from the research, it can be a mixed bag group of interpretations that come from the data. Do you think the research isn't valid so we shouldn't be taking anything from it? That it doesn't provide a decent enough challenge to any of the established scientific views we've got right now? Don't know what you mean.

What do you mean?

I said don’t push me any further.

lol. I’ve heard physicists talk about this but I don’t know of any books or papers to read.

But it would mean that the nature of different parts of the universe have the ability to cancel each other out and become ‘nothing’.

Matter/Antimatter. Positive/negative.

Why, yes it does Tim. It reminds me of you.

If you'd actually read that article I linked to, you would have seen that it wasn't actually me that asked (does that) remind you of anyone.

Quote from Einstein who you (Steve) said didn't believe in God which is of course debateable but I don't care one way or the other : 

"There are still people, he remarked at a charity dinner during the War, who say there is no God. “But what really makes me angry is that they quote me (Einstein) for support of such views. There are fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics,” he said in 1940. Remind you of anyone?  

Worse than that, you haven't understood it even remotely correctly. You've just branded me as a hypocritical fanatical atheist. I might have expected you to bracket me as the opposite, that is your usual style, a fanatical religious believer, even though I'm no such thing. 

What is the point in debating anything with you.

1. Of course but it goes further than that. A position must be accompanied with factual evidence. If not, then it's just opinion.

2. Funny how many hold this same opinion physicalism = oblivion
Physicalism absolves one of moral responsibility.
As for morality it is subjective. I've cobbled some examples if you'd like to see. Seems such thinking lacks flexibility. 

3. 5 mass extinctions in Earth's history so far. 9 extinct human species. Sounds worthless doesn't it?

Should've guessed you have no compunction against spreading the idea that human life is worthless.

Your insistence that people believe the same as you, no matter the consequences to their own psyches...that just seems Evil to me. I couldn't spend so much time trying to inflict potential psychological damage on my fellow humans just so I could be right on the Internet.

Of course maybe there is a way to morally justify evangelizing your Physicalist faith, I just haven't seen it. If you have some argument for why it's okay to spread such a nihilistic religion feel free to post it and I'll let you know if I find it satisfactory.

Wow, that's a long list of luminaries. Now this raises this question: How much weight should I give to a list of people expressing unscientific factless personal beliefs?  Btw, unbeknownst to the owner of that site, Einstein did not believe in God. If you would like to know what he thought read up on Baruch Spinoza.

But Physicalism itself then is a factless personal belief. And you are assuming there's no reason to doubt Physicalism based on evidence, but clearly not everyone agrees with you as per this essay in Nature by physicist Richard Conn Henry:

One benefit of switching humanity to a correct perception of the world is the resulting joy of discovering the mental nature of the Universe. We have no idea what this mental nature implies, but — the great thing is — it is true. Beyond the acquisition of this perception, physics can no longer help. You may descend into solipsism, expand to deism, or something else if you can justify it — just don't ask physics for help.

There is another benefit of seeing the world as quantum mechanical: someone who has learned to accept that nothing exists but observations is far ahead of peers who stumble through physics hoping to find out ‘what things are’. If we can ‘pull a Galileo,’ and get people believing the truth, they will find physics a breeze.

The Universe is immaterial — mental and spiritual. Live, and enjoy.

Spinoza was a pantheist, who believed God and Nature were equivalent. It's funny that you mention this though, since if we're talking Spinoza we're talking philosophy. I guess it's okay to bring in philosophy but only when it's convenient to your evangalizing your materialist faith?







Beyond that Einstein's ideas of God might be arguable, but we should also note that he was sympathetic to the reality of Psi and even wrote the introduction to Upton Sinclair's Mental Radio:



I have read the book of Upton Sinclair with great interest

and am convinced that the same deserves the most earnest consid-

eration, not only of the laity, but also of the psychologists by

profession. The results of the telepathic experiments carefully and

plainly set forth in this book stand surely far beyond those which

a nature investigator holds to be thinkable. On the other hand,

it is out of the question in the case of so conscientious an observer

and writer as Upton Sinclair that he is carrying on a conscious

deception of the reading world; his good faith and dependability

are not to be doubted. So if somehow the facts here set forth rest

not upon telepathy, but upon some unconscious hypnotic influence

from person to person, this also would be of high psychological

interest. In no case should the psychologically interested circles

pass over this book heedlessly.



[signed] A. EINSTEIN

1. Of course but it goes further than that. A position must be accompanied with factual evidence. If not, then it's just opinion.

Should've guessed you have no compunction against spreading the idea that human life is worthless.

Your insistence that people believe the same as you, no matter the consequences to their own psyches...that just seems Evil to me. I couldn't spend so much time trying to inflict potential psychological damage on my fellow humans just so I could be right on the Internet.

Of course maybe there is a way to morally justify evangelizing your Physicalist faith, I just haven't seen it. If you have some argument for why it's okay to spread such a nihilistic religion feel free to post it and I'll let you know if I find it satisfactory.

I almost fell over laughing when reading this. You have such a narrow and perhaps over inflated sense of importance in this vast uncaring universe.What I was saying is from the perspective of this universe, the universe does not care. If I were to spread my views I'd have a website. I don't. Or I'd join multiple forums just like this to spread the word. But I don't. Or write articles like Dawkins. But I don't. Outside of this forum I don't talk to nobody about this stuff. One last thing, since you think members could be emotionally fragile perhaps refrain from asking such provocatively hard questions.

P.S. I really did like this thread "Why do you believe, advocates/skeptics?". Notice though, I said not a word. I am not the monster you portray me to be. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm retiring back to my gingerbread house to grab a bite while watching the Hallmark channel.

Man, those damn opinions like morals, string theory, artificial intelligence, multiple universes or all of philosophy that deals with non empirical information and ideas. I wish you'd all just stop having opinions and believe in facts.

P.S. I really did like this thread "Why do you believe, advocates/skeptics?". Notice though, I said not a word. I am not the monster you portray me to be. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm retiring back to my gingerbread house to grab a bite while watching the Hallmark channel.

Also please do say a word! It's why I made it, I'd love for there to be more skeptical responses on there

I almost fell over laughing when reading this. You have such a narrow and perhaps over inflated sense of importance in this vast uncaring universe.What I was saying is from the perspective of this universe, the universe does not care. If I were to spread my views I'd have a website. I don't. Or I'd join multiple forums just like this to spread the word. But I don't. Or write articles like Dawkins. But I don't. Outside of this forum I don't talk to nobody about this stuff. One last thing, since you think members could be emotionally fragile perhaps refrain from asking such provocatively hard questions.

P.S. I really did like this thread "Why do you believe, advocates/skeptics?". Notice though, I said not a word. I am not the monster you portray me to be. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm retiring back to my gingerbread house to grab a bite while watching the Hallmark channel.

I'm not seeing a moral justification in this. Causing psychological damage to someone on a single forum is still evil.

Shoplifting from one store can also be bad, even if one isn't stealing the wealth from hundreds of pensions.

I only spoke to the evil you're committing, I never said anything about scale.

You can if you wish provide some justification for why evangelizing Physicalism isn't evil.

I'll let you know if I find it satisfactory.