AI megathread

‘Impossible’ to create AI tools like ChatGPT without copyrighted material, OpenAI says

Heh...Thieves demanding permission to steal?

‘Impossible’ to create AI tools like ChatGPT without copyrighted material, OpenAI says

Heh...Thieves demanding permission to steal?

More a legal defense than a grounded argument.  Listening to the All In podcast they talked about this.  They theorize that OpenAI already has LLM's that are exclusive of copyrighted content should it come down to it.  They further argue the likely outcome to be some form of compensation to the originator of the IP (i.e., NYT's).  Where this ultimately ends is anyone's guess.

The technology, leaving the larger consciousness topics we discuss, is fascinating.  I have begun assimilating it into my professional life and see massive potential efficiencies coming from it as it evolves.

More a legal defense than a grounded argument.  Listening to the All In podcast they talked about this.  They theorize that OpenAI already has LLM's that are exclusive of copyrighted content should it come down to it.  They further argue the likely outcome to be some form of compensation to the originator of the IP (i.e., NYT's).  Where this ultimately ends is anyone's guess.

The technology, leaving the larger consciousness topics we discuss, is fascinating.  I have begun assimilating it into my professional life and see massive potential efficiencies coming from it as it evolves.

Yeah for better or for worse we're stuck with this technology.

I can see myself having to integrate some aspects of it, there will likely be no software business that can avoid it if they want to stay afloat.

Yeah for better or for worse we're stuck with this technology.

I can see myself having to integrate some aspects of it, there will likely be no software business that can avoid it if they want to stay afloat.

I think you're correct.  I'm not a coder/developer but have dabbled both for personal and business reasons.  I can write some code.

I recently played around with the free version of ChatGPT and asked it to write some code.  I then asked it to refine the code after using it, etc.  For an amateur like me its a massive force multiplier.  In the past I would have to read manuals...... then I had to Google....

Google searches were definitely an improvement over reading manuals (yes, I'm old  ) but the jump to ChatGPT is just stunning.  I can't imagine how helpful it might be to a professional software engineer.

Plus, at least in my work, I can see the promise of AI taking over mundane tasks that are necessary but tedious and repetitive.  This is a thrilling prospect.  I've long been enthralled by the notion of a personal "Jarvis" (i.e., from the Ironman movies) and I'm convinced that's coming.  While I lean to the "better", I guess it will be for better or worse.

Google searches were definitely an improvement over reading manuals (yes, I'm old  ) but the jump to ChatGPT is just stunning.  I can't imagine how helpful it might be to a professional software engineer.

I suspect ChatGPT gives occasional programmers the greatest help. Typically projects sprawl across many files and need to interface with other bits of software etc. It would be hard to specify all the relevant constraints and considerations I think.

However, GOOGLE is absolutely vital for all programmers!

David

I suspect ChatGPT gives occasional programmers the greatest help. Typically projects sprawl across many files and need to interface with other bits of software etc. It would be hard to specify all the relevant constraints and considerations I think.

However, GOOGLE is absolutely vital for all programmers!

David

I'd say it depends on what language and what you are doing, as if you are a company that uses a more obscure programming language my experience is to be wary of ChatGPT's suggestions.

But as tutoring tool or perhaps to make a webpage...there it might be useful - OTOH I would be incredibly wary of doing anything that requires memory allocation/deallocation.

The artistic fields are also another question - I was talking with some colleagues and it was difficult to come up with a moral argument against stealing from companies that use AI art. So in addition to laws and regulations shifting while you develop a product, you could have a segment of your customer base who might both refuse to buy your product and then pirate it so they & others can drain your funds.

The other concern is how much you can charge - even the person who doesn't care about AI trained on copyrighted works is unlikely to want to pay top dollar for a product. One person also noted it would be ridiculous to try and sell an art book as an addition to the product, as is usually done for many IPs, because the process is merely typing words for the AI to use.

So then on top of people refusing to buy your product, and people who think it's now okay to pirate it, you'll have people who will demand you drop the price to pass savings to the consumer. And that's also in addition to the barrier to entry being lowered and a flood of junk in any creative industry.

But then a world without any real art, where creativity is just another algorithm, is the very world the materialists-atheists have long dreamed of. If objective morality and choice can be sacrificed to allay their fear and hatred of a God they don't believe in, why would artistic merit be worth saving?

I'd say it depends on what language and what you are doing, as if you are a company that uses a more obscure programming language my experience is to be wary of ChatGPT's suggestions.

But as tutoring tool or perhaps to make a webpage...there it might be useful - OTOH I would be incredibly wary of doing anything that requires memory allocation/deallocation.

It sounds to me that you have explored AI quite a bit for computer programming. Obscure programming languages may not get referenced much on the internet, but also they typically rely on automatic garbage collection. This alleviates the programmer of the task of memory allocation/deallocation, but it is easy to produce code that seems to work until it is used in earnest!

The artistic fields are also another question - I was talking with some colleagues and it was difficult to come up with a moral argument against stealing from companies that use AI art. So in addition to laws and regulations shifting while you develop a product, you could have a segment of your customer base who might both refuse to buy your product and then pirate it so they & others can drain your funds.

The other concern is how much you can charge - even the person who doesn't care about AI trained on copyrighted works is unlikely to want to pay top dollar for a product. One person also noted it would be ridiculous to try and sell an art book as an addition to the product, as is usually done for many IPs, because the process is merely typing words for the AI to use.

So then on top of people refusing to buy your product, and people who think it's now okay to pirate it, you'll have people who will demand you drop the price to pass savings to the consumer. And that's also in addition to the barrier to entry being lowered and a flood of junk in any creative industry.

But then a world without any real art, where creativity is just another algorithm, is the very world the materialists-atheists have long dreamed of. If objective morality and choice can be sacrificed to allay their fear and hatred of a God they don't believe in, why would artistic merit be worth saving?

I tried GOOGLING for AI generated art and honestly very little appealed to me - it all looked dystopian and disturbing.

David

It sounds to me that you have explored AI quite a bit for computer programming. Obscure programming languages may not get referenced much on the internet, but also they typically rely on automatic garbage collection. This alleviates the programmer of the task of memory allocation/deallocation, but it is easy to produce code that seems to work until it is used in earnest!

I tried GOOGLING for AI generated art and honestly very little appealed to me - it all looked dystopian and disturbing.

David

Actually regarding memory I was thinking about Rust. But even C/C++ have many pitfalls I wouldn't trust AI to resolve or fully advise on.

As for AI generated art I was thinking about accusations of AI art already causing companies to lose customers. Right now it doesn't seem like a lot, but I think it is very short sighted to hope that there are no regulations that could end up affecting currently developed products and/or the ease by which AI art will lower the barrier of entry into any creative industry.

Add in the question, "Why I should pay this much, or anything at all, for product X when you got art without paying artists?" and you can see how creative industries will slowly kill themselves off by accepting AI art. Even if, say, 20% of your customer base abandons you and 5% turn around and make your product available via piracy, there are companies that by their nature operate on thin margins and would be seriously hurt.

It's also incredibly easy to pirate stuff, even board games can be pirated by creating a set of files for a virtual game board like Table Top Simulator. People pay for this stuff because they feel they are enabling creators to make more stuff, but IMO almost every working artist has incentive to kill off a company that uses too much AI art.

The very long run prospect seems even worse, with less and less human entry into creative fields which means an advance in AI art would come from taking in previous AI art. Seems like a soulless future...

Actually regarding memory I was thinking about Rust. But even C/C++ have many pitfalls I wouldn't trust AI to resolve or fully advise on.

As for AI generated art I was thinking about accusations of AI art already causing companies to lose customers. Right now it doesn't seem like a lot, but I think it is very short sighted to hope that there are no regulations that could end up affecting currently developed products and/or the ease by which AI art will lower the barrier of entry into any creative industry.

Add in the question, "Why I should pay this much, or anything at all, for product X when you got art without paying artists?" and you can see how creative industries will slowly kill themselves off by accepting AI art. Even if, say, 20% of your customer base abandons you and 5% turn around and make your product available via piracy, there are companies that by their nature operate on thin margins and would be seriously hurt.

It's also incredibly easy to pirate stuff, even board games can be pirated by creating a set of files for a virtual game board like Table Top Simulator. People pay for this stuff because they feel they are enabling creators to make more stuff, but IMO almost every working artist has incentive to kill off a company that uses too much AI art.

The very long run prospect seems even worse, with less and less human entry into creative fields which means an advance in AI art would come from taking in previous AI art. Seems like a soulless future...

Are you active in this area?

David

David, if you haven't invested a fair amount of time in using the LLM AI tools, you're really incapable of opining on its uses and limitations.

I've only recently begun to try and "use" it in my professional career.  Its choppy in terms of how much efficiency I've gained (likely negative as there is a learning/creative-use curve).  However, just yesterday I was struggling with how to phrase an email to a prospective client.  I ask ChatGPT with a simple prompt to suggest some language.

I was amazingly good, but certainly not a final draft.  That said and for me at least, when I am writing for my job the first draft is far and away THE most time consuming part.  This example allowed me to move from initial drafter to draft editor.  Took me 30 seconds to edit the AI draft and bam..... off went my email.  Probably saved me 10 minutes.

While the bigger questions around AI continue to be a point of potential concern, the day to day application potential seems exponential.