VR. A knackered old git’s story.

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I wanted to write something about my recent uplifting experience with VR. Many of you will know that I used to fly for a living before a bad stroke changed my life almost ten years ago, aeroplanes are deep in my psyche and my soul. I was always a civilian pilot, never flying military aircraft although I tried to join the RAF, but failed the medical ostensibly because they found me to be colour blind to a unacceptable degree. That I was subsequently able to overcome this problem and pass civilian tests might point to politics becoming involved. I really don’t know, and in any event, looking back I’m very happy with the way things panned out (Google Stephen McKinnell Hansard if you’re interested).

Anyway, after my stroke I spent a few years on healing myself physically. A question I sometimes ponder as to how I did in this regard, is how much of my potential did I really reach during those years? How much more could I have done to reach my former (basically) 100% use of my limbs? I would maybe like to know, perhaps if ‘life-reviews’ really exist I might be shown, if I’m still bothered by such things. The mental healing sort of looked after itself during that period, at least that’s what I feel looking back. I was very grateful to be alive, not so much for me, but for my daughter and my wife, it would have been a difficult thing to lose a father at the age of nine, as my wife knew only too well. 

I felt no resentment or real loss, as one might assume to be the case, I was happy to be alive. To sit in my summer garden and look at the flowers and birds would be joy enough - more than enough. I made no conscious effort to feel that way, it came naturally. I think about this occasionally, but I am quite content with accepting it, rather than bruising it with pointless mental contortions as we do with so many things that are probably beyond us. I am grateful, that was/is enough. 

Aeroplanes were a love that I simply had to let go, for to dwell on my memories would surely drag me under, to cling to the past was never an option that I consciously chose. Perhaps our brain is designed to deal with such monumental losses, and it was a monumental loss. Was it a loss comparable than that of the death of a parent ? I think it might easily be, as such losses are expected at some point, however much we might not like to think about them. Our brain blanks death out, reality coming in waves that we (hopefully) can process and cope with. 

While sitting in my small summer garden I used to look at Boeing’s and Airbus flying overhead and be grateful for the almost exactly thirty years I spent flying these beautiful machines. It’s only recently that I’ve felt a need to find a healthy distraction away from the ‘worlds woes’ that I have been so focussed upon. The time had come to look for an alternative to Twitter and other social media. Some may remember the freedom I wrote about after I bought a three wheeler bike and was riding it daily in the autumn. Annoyingly this was too much for my one working arm, and I have been forced into parking my bike up for the winter. My left arm/shoulder needs total rest, but that’s very challenging when it’s the only one you can use. My right shoulder looks good, but there’s a problem when the hand that’s attached to that arm/shoulder is on permanent holiday! 

Phew! So that’s some background to the winding path to reach what I actually wanted to talk about. Jurgen Ziewe is well known to many of us as a Out of Body traveller, he has been interviewed twice by Alex on Skeptiko. For the past few years Jurgen has been involved with Virtual Reality, making videos which take us to the places he has been to during his ‘travels’. Here is his YouTube link https://youtube.com/channel/UCRHgi-1l0ipWzJjL12JytEQ

To properly enjoy these experiences it was necessary to buy a VR headset and a computer with which to run these creations. At around the same time I became aware of a ‘flying game’ that was a development of one I used to dabble with in the nineties and early 2000s. It is called DCSworld, or Digital Combat Simulations. It is a ‘game’ that is supported by mainly men who wish to make an experience as lifelike as possible. It requires a high spec computer to reach its full potential, so as I needed a new computer and have the money I decided the time was right to dip my toe back in the icy water! 

I didn’t know quite what to expect from Jurgens videos, but I hoped I might be able to connect my experience in VR closer to my dreams or maybe it would revive my interest in meditating or something along those lines. Maybe make my rare lucid dreams last longer that a few ‘breathless’ seconds! Suffice to say, they are pleasant enough, but are they enough to unlock my subconscious? Probably not. At least not yet! 

Then I downloaded DCS world.

To say the simulation is mind blowing is probably an exaggeration - but at least to me - that’s how I’d have to describe the experience. Of course it’s not constantly ‘mind blowing’, but at times the joy of my own experience ‘in the now’ combined with grasping the amazing potential has brought tears to my eyes. Flying a French Mirage 2000 jet off the coast of Georgia, or at high speed up a tree lined mountainous valley might not be everyone’s idea of ‘fun’, but to me it brought my youthful dreams much closer to reality. Doing so without harming anyone, or the environment, nature or anything else is an exciting prospect that for me has actually come to fruition. There will be those that argue that this is not quite true, but compared to ‘reality’, simulation seems to be a much better way of achieving ‘things’. 

Many players are happy to play DCS through a computer screen, but for me it simply has to be in VR, I accept the view is limited to goggles, and these goggles are heavy and relatively uncomfortable. I can ignore such minor problems, within a few years they will be overcome. Inside the cockpit is ‘real’, in the F18 or A10 it’s so close to reality as makes no difference, the design teams go to amazing lengths to make their work as perfect as possible. There are two main areas where we can look, inside the cockpit and outside. Inside the cockpit is where I’m blown away! It’s exactly like sitting in a fighter, switching the switches, programming the INS, the radio, starting the APU then the engines exactly like the real thing. With the noise in your ears replicating the sounds. It’s the really mind blowing bit for me! Whether your eyes are shut or open - it’s real.

Looking outside is often when my brain is forced back to this reality,  the outside world isn’t quite there yet. At times it is close enough to fool me, or close to it. I don’t know what it might be possible to do with really powerful computers, are they there yet? Can they accurately simulate my plants and trees in my garden? Probably. Just try seeing a MiG 21 (or MiG29, F16, F15 or any other plane)coming towards you at a thousand knots closing speed with the hint of dark smoke coming from it’s engine as it flashes past your canopy and you turn to engage him. You can almost feel the heat! You certainly can feel the sweat! It’s very easy to get hooked! 

Unfortunately the cockpit is where our real hands are not yet able to function without an interface of some sort. With me, having one useable hand is a challenge that I feel can be relatively easily overcome, using other technologies such as voice attack and others. A lot, almost the impossible is possible as long as you accept your reality and find ways to work around them. I don’t have two serviceable hands, I won’t for the rest of this life, so either I find a way to overcome my difficulties and real joy is to be found in doing so, or else give up and lose out. It’s that simple. 

Of course there are those with disabilities that I can’t imagine living with, but however bad they are, there must surely be a way to find some path to joy in life. 

Actually the mental side has been as big or even bigger problem than my physical trials. For the first few weeks I couldn’t roll the aircraft beyond thirty degrees of bank without 1) Becoming quickly queasy and 2)Having my right arm and leg tense up like an anaconda with its favourite snack! My right side was the one affected by the stroke, and when threatened it automatically behaves in a primitive protective way. Like when my mate took me for a terrifying but very exciting ride in his Tesla, each 0 to 60 acceleration had my right arm shaking involuntarily in front of my eyes! However with time (now over 100hours of practise)and pushing the boundaries I am well on the way to sorting the nausea and I am learning to breathe, along with familiarity training to make the tensing up decrease significantly. I can now roll fully either way, but not freely, that will take a lot longer to achieve, looping still freaks me out a bit! It’s getting easier. Eventually I hope to be able to ‘dogfight’ without being hindered significantly. It’s amazing how much consciously breathing helps, I often find myself holding my breath when it’s the last thing I ought to be doing. 

I do still find that I am pulled in opposite directions about ‘enjoying’ this game. After all, these type of planes may be beautiful objects, amazing technologies in all respects, both in the virtual world and the real one, but the point is they are designed to kill. I have difficulty with that dilemma of my own making. A large part of the game is ‘fighting the enemy’, whether you like it or not. I may be content just flying high performance jets around the place like a hooligan, after all that’s something airline pilots can’t do. However sooner or later I’m going to want to explore the envelope. I realise it’s a weird idea to most, feeling guilt about ‘virtual killing’, but if ‘thoughts really are things’...? I know, I know, intent is important. Nevertheless it’s something that unsettles me. 


 There is a certain joy in blowing things up, even if it’s only in a virtual world, for some like me, it’s the only way that I’d ever be doing it. I’ve changed a lot from the young man who desperately wanted to be a fighter pilot. Or maybe I haven’t? It’s now a possibility for a knackered old git to realise the dreams of his youth. I feel grateful and want to share my experience as well as shining a light on this technology in case anyone’s interested. 
Oh my God, I hate all this.   Surprise
(This post was last modified: 2021-03-13, 03:28 PM by Stan Woolley.)
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(2021-03-13, 03:22 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: I wanted to write something about my recent uplifting experience with VR. Many of you will know that I used to fly for a living before a bad stroke changed my life almost ten years ago, aeroplanes are deep in my psyche and my soul. I was always a civilian pilot, never flying military aircraft although I tried to join the RAF, but failed the medical ostensibly because they found me to be colour blind to a unacceptable degree. That I was subsequently able to overcome this problem and pass civilian tests might point to politics becoming involved. I really don’t know, and in any event, looking back I’m very happy with the way things panned out (Google Stephen McKinnell Hansard if you’re interested).

Anyway, after my stroke I spent a few years on healing myself physically. A question I sometimes ponder as to how I did in this regard, is how much of my potential did I really reach during those years? How much more could I have done to reach my former (basically) 100% use of my limbs? I would maybe like to know, perhaps if ‘life-reviews’ really exist I might be shown, if I’m still bothered by such things. The mental healing sort of looked after itself during that period, at least that’s what I feel looking back. I was very grateful to be alive, not so much for me, but for my daughter and my wife, it would have been a difficult thing to lose a father at the age of nine, as my wife knew only too well. 

I felt no resentment or real loss, as one might assume to be the case, I was happy to be alive. To sit in my summer garden and look at the flowers and birds would be joy enough - more than enough. I made no conscious effort to feel that way, it came naturally. I think about this occasionally, but I am quite content with accepting it, rather than bruising it with pointless mental contortions as we do with so many things that are probably beyond us. I am grateful, that was/is enough. 

Aeroplanes were a love that I simply had to let go, for to dwell on my memories would surely drag me under, to cling to the past was never an option that I consciously chose. Perhaps our brain is designed to deal with such monumental losses, and it was a monumental loss. Was it a loss comparable than that of the death of a parent ? I think it might easily be, as such losses are expected at some point, however much we might not like to think about them. Our brain blanks death out, reality coming in waves that we (hopefully) can process and cope with. 

While sitting in my small summer garden I used to look at Boeing’s and Airbus flying overhead and be grateful for the almost exactly thirty years I spent flying these beautiful machines. It’s only recently that I’ve felt a need to find a healthy distraction away from the ‘worlds woes’ that I have been so focussed upon. The time had come to look for an alternative to Twitter and other social media. Some may remember the freedom I wrote about after I bought a three wheeler bike and was riding it daily in the autumn. Annoyingly this was too much for my one working arm, and I have been forced into parking my bike up for the winter. My left arm/shoulder needs total rest, but that’s very challenging when it’s the only one you can use. My right shoulder looks good, but there’s a problem when the hand that’s attached to that arm/shoulder is on permanent holiday! 

Phew! So that’s some background to the winding path to reach what I actually wanted to talk about. Jurgen Ziewe is well known to many of us as a Out of Body traveller, he has been interviewed twice by Alex on Skeptiko. For the past few years Jurgen has been involved with Virtual Reality, making videos which take us to the places he has been to during his ‘travels’. Here is his YouTube link https://youtube.com/channel/UCRHgi-1l0ipWzJjL12JytEQ

To properly enjoy these experiences it was necessary to buy a VR headset and a computer with which to run these creations. At around the same time I became aware of a ‘flying game’ that was a development of one I used to dabble with in the nineties and early 2000s. It is called DCSworld, or Digital Combat Simulations. It is a ‘game’ that is supported by mainly men who wish to make an experience as lifelike as possible. It requires a high spec computer to reach its full potential, so as I needed a new computer and have the money I decided the time was right to dip my toe back in the icy water! 

I didn’t know quite what to expect from Jurgens videos, but I hoped I might be able to connect my experience in VR closer to my dreams or maybe it would revive my interest in meditating or something along those lines. Maybe make my rare lucid dreams last longer that a few ‘breathless’ seconds! Suffice to say, they are pleasant enough, but are they enough to unlock my subconscious? Probably not. At least not yet! 

Then I downloaded DCS world.

To say the simulation is mind blowing is probably an exaggeration - but at least to me - that’s how I’d have to describe the experience. Of course it’s not constantly ‘mind blowing’, but at times the joy of my own experience ‘in the now’ combined with grasping the amazing potential has brought tears to my eyes. Flying a French Mirage 2000 jet off the coast of Georgia, or at high speed up a tree lined mountainous valley might not be everyone’s idea of ‘fun’, but to me it brought my youthful dreams much closer to reality. Doing so without harming anyone, or the environment, nature or anything else is an exciting prospect that for me has actually come to fruition. There will be those that argue that this is not quite true, but compared to ‘reality’, simulation seems to be a much better way of achieving ‘things’. 

Many players are happy to play DCS through a computer screen, but for me it simply has to be in VR, I accept the view is limited to goggles, and these goggles are heavy and relatively uncomfortable. I can ignore such minor problems, within a few years they will be overcome. Inside the cockpit is ‘real’, in the F18 or A10 it’s so close to reality as makes no difference, the design teams go to amazing lengths to make their work as perfect as possible. There are two main areas where we can look, inside the cockpit and outside. Inside the cockpit is where I’m blown away! It’s exactly like sitting in a fighter, switching the switches, programming the INS, the radio, starting the APU then the engines exactly like the real thing. With the noise in your ears replicating the sounds. It’s the really mind blowing bit for me! Whether your eyes are shut or open - it’s real.

Looking outside is often when my brain is forced back to this reality,  the outside world isn’t quite there yet. At times it is close enough to fool me, or close to it. I don’t know what it might be possible to do with really powerful computers, are they there yet? Can they accurately simulate my plants and trees in my garden? Probably. Just try seeing a MiG 21 (or MiG29, F16, F15 or any other plane)coming towards you at a thousand knots closing speed with the hint of dark smoke coming from it’s engine as it flashes past your canopy and you turn to engage him. You can almost feel the heat! You certainly can feel the sweat! It’s very easy to get hooked! 

Unfortunately the cockpit is where our real hands are not yet able to function without an interface of some sort. With me, having one useable hand is a challenge that I feel can be relatively easily overcome, using other technologies such as voice attack and others. A lot, almost the impossible is possible as long as you accept your reality and find ways to work around them. I don’t have two serviceable hands, I won’t for the rest of this life, so either I find a way to overcome my difficulties and real joy is to be found in doing so, or else give up and lose out. It’s that simple. 

Of course there are those with disabilities that I can’t imagine living with, but however bad they are, there must surely be a way to find some path to joy in life. 

Actually the mental side has been as big or even bigger problem than my physical trials. For the first few weeks I couldn’t roll the aircraft beyond thirty degrees of bank without 1) Becoming quickly queasy and 2)Having my right arm and leg tense up like an anaconda with its favourite snack! My right side was the one affected by the stroke, and when threatened it automatically behaves in a primitive protective way. Like when my mate took me for a terrifying but very exciting ride in his Tesla, each 0 to 60 acceleration had my right arm shaking involuntarily in front of my eyes! However with time (now over 100hours of practise)and pushing the boundaries I am well on the way to sorting the nausea and I am learning to breathe, along with familiarity training to make the tensing up decrease significantly. I can now roll fully either way, but not freely, that will take a lot longer to achieve, looping still freaks me out a bit! It’s getting easier. Eventually I hope to be able to ‘dogfight’ without being hindered significantly. It’s amazing how much consciously breathing helps, I often find myself holding my breath when it’s the last thing I ought to be doing. 

I do still find that I am pulled in opposite directions about ‘enjoying’ this game. After all, these type of planes may be beautiful objects, amazing technologies in all respects, both in the virtual world and the real one, but the point is they are designed to kill. I have difficulty with that dilemma of my own making. A large part of the game is ‘fighting the enemy’, whether you like it or not. I may be content just flying high performance jets around the place like a hooligan, after all that’s something airline pilots can’t do. However sooner or later I’m going to want to explore the envelope. I realise it’s a weird idea to most, feeling guilt about ‘virtual killing’, but if ‘thoughts really are things’...? I know, I know, intent is important. Nevertheless it’s something that unsettles me. 


 There is a certain joy in blowing things up, even if it’s only in a virtual world, for some like me, it’s the only way that I’d ever be doing it. I’ve changed a lot from the young man who desperately wanted to be a fighter pilot. Or maybe I haven’t? It’s now a possibility for a knackered old git to realise the dreams of his youth. I feel grateful and want to share my experience as well as shining a light on this technology in case anyone’s interested. 
That’s a great post Stan - thank you. 

My brother suffered a severe stroke two years ago and has lost use of his right side. He has quite a complicated medical history and it seems it wasn’t his first stroke either. This post has really made me think about how VR might help him.
(This post was last modified: 2021-03-13, 05:18 PM by Obiwan.)
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(2021-03-13, 05:01 PM)Obiwan Wrote: My brother suffered. Severe stroke two years ago and has lost use of his right side. He has quite a complicated medical history and it seems it wasn’t his first stroke either. This post has really made me think about how VR might help him.


Thank you Obiwan  Praying hands I had my doubts about writing this here, but you have put my mind at rest. 

The potential is incredible. It’s about far more than aeroplanes, stroke recovery is an area that this technology might be able to help recover fingers or more. This is one of those things that I just know that a lot of good can come from it, but can’t explain how I know. My imagination is rather limited in some ways, but that’s ok, there are other people that have amazing imagination, and where love is involved, have the motivation to work miracles. 

I feel certain that there are people working on programmes to provide help for people like your brother, and if not, there ought to be! I’m also quite certain that lots of work has been done regarding neuroplasticity over the past ten years. It’s not always easy to find out what is going on, and a lot of things I personally found frustrating. For example I found the reluctance of the NHS to encourage us to look into modern aids that might be available privately quite baffling. Also, they are good at saving lives, but not so good at recovery in the years after they are saved. The didn’t have the money, they said, but how much has been spent on track & trace in the past year? How many billions wasted? If only we could prioritise more wisely. 

A little bit of politics creeping in there!  Big Grin

If you’ve any questions or think there’s something I might know, just PM me.
Oh my God, I hate all this.   Surprise
(This post was last modified: 2021-03-13, 05:54 PM by Stan Woolley.)
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(2021-03-13, 05:52 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: Thank you Obiwan  Praying hands I had my doubts about writing this here, but you have put my mind at rest. 

The potential is incredible. It’s about far more than aeroplanes, stroke recovery is an area that this technology might be able to help recover fingers or more. This is one of those things that I just know that a lot of good can come from it, but can’t explain how I know. My imagination is rather limited in some ways, but that’s ok, there are other people that have amazing imagination, and where love is involved, have the motivation to work miracles. 

I feel certain that there are people working on programmes to provide help for people like your brother, and if not, there ought to be! I’m also quite certain that lots of work has been done regarding neuroplasticity over the past ten years. It’s not always easy to find out what is going on, and a lot of things I personally found frustrating. For example I found the reluctance of the NHS to encourage us to look into modern aids that might be available privately quite baffling. Also, they are good at saving lives, but not so good at recovery in the years after they are saved. The didn’t have the money, they said, but how much has been spent on track & trace in the past year? How many billions wasted? If only we could prioritise more wisely. 

A little bit of politics creeping in there!  Big Grin

If you’ve any questions or think there’s something I might know, just PM me.
I totally agree re the nhs Stan. There’s a lot of good but the community rehab was rubbish, if we’d left it to them he’d be confined to bed or a wheelchair by now or possibly dead as the mental health support was non existent. Fortunately he had a fantastic GP. 

I do think VR would help him but I’d need to understand what config might help. It sounds like you’ve been similarly affected. If you have any advice I’d appreciate it but by all means use private messaging if you prefer.

**edit just saw your pm note - Wilco!
(This post was last modified: 2021-03-13, 06:01 PM by Obiwan.)
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(2021-03-13, 06:01 PM)Obiwan Wrote: edit just saw your pm note - Wilco!


Wilco? 

Do you have a pilots license? Or perhaps you flew in the war? LoL  LOL

I think strokes might be gold standard teaching aids, at least from a spiritual pov for everyone involved, I truly do. The potential choices they offer can be very healing, if we choose wisely.
Oh my God, I hate all this.   Surprise
(This post was last modified: 2021-03-13, 06:14 PM by Stan Woolley.)
(2021-03-13, 06:05 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: Wilco? 

Do you have a pilots license? Or perhaps you flew in the war? LoL  LOL

Haha no Stan. I did about 100 hours on a helicopter but ran out of money before I did the PPL(H).
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I was thinking about Mirror therapy but I don’t know if you’ve had experience of it?
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(2021-03-13, 06:10 PM)Obiwan Wrote: I was thinking about Mirror therapy but I don’t know if you’ve had experience of it?


Yes, I tried most things that weren’t too expensive. To be honest I can’t remember if it made a difference, the secret is to find something that the patient is motivated to do while it helps them recover at the same time. I remember jumping when they played that trick of hitting my hands image with a hammer! I was motivated by wanting to play the bass again, but eventually had to give up and accept that I’d done my best, if not the best that might be achieved at any cost.

Re the helicopter, 100hrs on those wouldn’t be cheap! Was it a Robinson? I had a go at flying a Hughes 500 but was clueless!  Wink

I’m thinking of a friend of mine that was always keen on aeroplanes but his eyesight prevented him from going further. I really think he’d love trying out flying a plane in VR. What does a ppl cost now, if you can still even do them? I would recommend anyone who’s considering doing a ppl, to instead think of buying a f. Off PC and a VR helmet. It’s cheaper, and has infinitely more potential. No contest.

The thing is that I can see the potential of teaching him to fly say a J3 Cub or Cessna while we are in opposite ends of the UK, in the same aircraft.
Oh my God, I hate all this.   Surprise
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(2021-03-13, 06:39 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: Yes, I tried most things that weren’t too expensive. To be honest I can’t remember if it made a difference, the secret is to find something that the patient is motivated to do while it helps them recover at the same time. I remember jumping when they played that trick of hitting my hands image with a hammer! I was motivated by wanting to play the bass again, but eventually had to give up and accept that I’d done my best, if not the best that might be achieved at any cost.

Re the helicopter, 100hrs on those wouldn’t be cheap! Was it a Robinson? I had a go at flying a Hughes 500 but was clueless!  Wink

I’m thinking of a friend of mine that was always keen on aeroplanes but his eyesight prevented him from going further. I really think he’d love trying out flying a plane in VR. What does a ppl cost now, if you can still even do them? I would recommend anyone who’s considering doing a ppl, to instead think of buying a f. Off PC and a VR helmet. It’s cheaper, and has infinitely more potential. No contest.

The thing is that I can see the potential of teaching him to fly say a J3 Cub or Cessna while we are in opposite ends of the UK, in the same aircraft.

Thanks Stan 

He’s really motivated plus him and my mum now live with us which makes it easier to help.

I started in an R22 but hated it. It was so flimsy. Then the R44 which was as you say very expensive but fun. For the first 12 hours or so I was terrified but once I could hold it in the hover it was a lot more fun.

I can’t remember the cost of the PPL tbh as I didn’t even solo. I think your idea of teaching your friend to fly using VR is a fantastic idea.
(This post was last modified: 2021-03-13, 07:36 PM by Obiwan.)
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Here’s a video of a guy playing the ‘game’ I’m talking about, he’s one person that’s definitely ‘playing’ the game, as opposed to taking it seriously. My strong recommendation to him would be “don’t take up flying real aeroplanes!”  Big Grin  Seriously! Stop

The video does get across how realistic the simulation is (or can be), at least inside the cockpit. My professional instinct is to get him as far away as possible from anything that flies, but I find myself forgiving him as his joie de Vivre is infectious! He makes me smile, and occasionally laugh out loud. Like at his first attempted take off!  Rolleyes

DCS world still has the ability to blow my mind. Like yesterday when I looked at this very type flying from a camera view beneath it with blue sky above, sound included. I defy anyone to say it wasn’t extremely realistic! 

Oh my God, I hate all this.   Surprise
(This post was last modified: 2021-03-17, 10:26 AM by Stan Woolley.)
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