Verified PK exists? I think we are deluding ourselves.

Hi all, so since i've been here i've heard a lot of talk about PK. People told me that it has been lab tested, but I don't really get it. If it has been tested and proven in a lab, how come there still is no confirmation for it being real?

I've seen people like Sean Mcnamara do some tests, but frankly i'm pretty sure it's just hot air moving inside the glass. In fact Dean Radin asked him to move the wheel in a vacuum and he couldn't do it, so he isn't moving the object at all.

Ninel Kulagina would have been a breakthrough worth a noble prize, yet nobody managed to totally verify if it was real or not. I don't get why she wasn't studied for years and years in rigorous lab testing. Just a few tests in hotel rooms that could have been rigged? Oh come on, why research was so weak on her?

Uri Geller too, he is making loads of money using tricks and such. He underwent minor testing, but I would expect somebody able to bend spoon using just the mind to be examined in the best possible way, as it would revolutionize sciene. Instead, this didn't happen.

Wherever I look, I see no proof at all of TK. Am I searching in the wrong places? IONS, PEAR, Rhine institute they claim they tested PK, but did they find anything solid?

I don't think there is anything currently that can be said to prove PK exists but I also think the lack of serious research comes from a two fold issue.

1: It's just "common sense" that PK isn't real, so why would you even attempt to study it deeply?
2: the existence of PK would run totally counter to existing power structure that function and depend on making everyone dependent on their system. Which means 3 things are likely to occur.

::EDIT:apparently you can't use tabs)

  A: the idea of PK is to be laughed at
  B: the belief in or pursuit of PK is to be demonized
  C: The acquisition of PK is to be criminalised

None of this would happen in any official public way but it would be implicit in the system. For high level PK can give an individual the ability, if honed properly, to not need a government to protect them, not need other people to survive, not need much of anything external potentially. Even food and water could become unnecessary. Sure that probably makes no sense but my experiments suggest you can bind the energy to itself and mimic matter which means it should be possible to even mimic food matter and beyond.

Such a capability would never be allowed to exist, you can see that in the things that governments normally restrict, even requiring people to need permits to run a lemonade stand or just have a personal use veggie garden in some places now. It means PK, even verified, low level PK, cannot be allowed to be widespread public knowledge. For if you have low level verification, it's just a matter of time before people figure out how to turn it into a high level ability.

Indeed, the only thing a ruling class would want made public about PK is how it's always just fraud or delusion.

I also discussed it here: https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-a...5#pid28245

Hi all, so since i've been here i've heard a lot of talk about PK. People told me that it has been lab tested, but I don't really get it. If it has been tested and proven in a lab, how come there still is no confirmation for it being real?

I've seen people like Sean Mcnamara do some tests, but frankly i'm pretty sure it's just hot air moving inside the glass. In fact Dean Radin asked him to move the wheel in a vacuum and he couldn't do it, so he isn't moving the object at all.

Ninel Kulagina would have been a breakthrough worth a noble prize, yet nobody managed to totally verify if it was real or not. I don't get why she wasn't studied for years and years in rigorous lab testing. Just a few tests in hotel rooms that could have been rigged? Oh come on, why research was so weak on her?

Uri Geller too, he is making loads of money using tricks and such. He underwent minor testing, but I would expect somebody able to bend spoon using just the mind to be examined in the best possible way, as it would revolutionize sciene. Instead, this didn't happen.

Wherever I look, I see no proof at all of TK. Am I searching in the wrong places? IONS, PEAR, Rhine institute they claim they tested PK, but did they find anything solid?

Most of the experimental work on PK in the last 40 years or so has been on so-called micro-PK, using random number generators. I assume you're not interested in that.

At the PEAR lab, as well as work with random number generators they did some PK experiments in which people tried to influence the movement of 9000 polystyrene balls falling through an array of nylon pegs (known as a Random Mechanical Cascade). They reported an overall Z value of about 4.2 for those experiments, which is extremely significant in statistical terms. However, it required well over 1000 hours of experiments to achieve that level.

I'm not sure about the others, but I think that's the only PK that the PEAR lab "claimed" to have tested.

Most of the experimental work on PK in the last 40 years or so has been on so-called micro-PK, using random number generators. I assume you're not interested in that.

At the PEAR lab, as well as work with random number generators they did some PK experiments in which people tried to influence the movement of 9000 polystyrene balls falling through an array of nylon pegs (known as a Random Mechanical Cascade). They reported an overall Z value of about 4.2 for those experiments, which is extremely significant in statistical terms. However, it required well over 1000 hours of experiments to achieve that level.

I'm not sure about the others, but I think that's the only PK that the PEAR lab "claimed" to have tested.

Very interesting. I find micro PK difficult to grasp and evaulate, it's all about percentages and numbers and i'm bad at math

But this PEAR experiment is interesting. Any word about the Rhine Institute? They report having tested NDEer Cherylee Black, but honestly I'm not sold on it as there are no videos or proofs

[Ninshub]

Re: testing macro PK individual performers - I have it on good authority that parapsychologists are currently not interested in doing that, to the frustration of said individuals. They'd rather do boring percentages and numbers.

Off the top of my head. The World of Ted Serios by Jule Eisenbud. The PK man by Jeffery Mishlove. The Gold. Leaf Leaf Lady By Stephen Braude. Are all worth while explorations of macro Pk.

Off the top of my head. The World of Ted Serios by Jule Eisenbud. The PK man by Jeffery Mishlove. The Gold. Leaf Leaf Lady By Stephen Braude. Are all worth while explorations of macro Pk.

I'll have to look at them

Raf999,

Also have a look at Sean McNamara. He has some interesting videos that show apparent PK. I have also had an experience myself after looking at his material a couple of years ago. Of course, this is not all verified scientifically, just personal videos and anecdotes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmu7v-np...6wtnxZ25sU

Raf999,

Also have a look at Sean McNamara. He has some interesting videos that show apparent PK. I have also had an experience myself after looking at his material a couple of years ago. Of course, this is not all verified scientifically, just personal videos and anecdotes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmu7v-np...6wtnxZ25sU

Sean's videos are interesting, but the wheel could be spinning for many causes. Heat is one of the causes, to do the test reliably he doesn't need to start with his hands in contact with the glass.

Another one is that the wheel is really unstable. Sometimes, it could just spin on it's own.

Dean Radin asked him to try spin it in a vacuum, and he couldn't do it. So he is probably making air move inside the glass. How and why it moves I really don't know, I'm no scientist. Maybe PK isn't about moving the object (too strong) but the particles around it?