This is not reality

I spent this day with a fair amount of intense psychic suffering and it was another demonstration to me of how we carry this stuff around, as you say, and it's no joking matter (from this perspective while we're in it, or this channel while we're

Sorry to hear that, Ian ! The problem I had with that man's testimony is that some of his medical crisis doesn't add up. Even as a layperson, I can tell that. Now everything he says might be exactly what happened but at the beginning for instance, he says he had his NDE while on duty. But he wasn't on duty, he was in bed with flu. Maybe he didn't mean to say that, maybe I'm a dickhead for pointing it out but alarm bells always ring with me.

Sorry to hear that, Ian ! The problem I had with that man's testimony is that some of his medical crisis doesn't add up. Even as a layperson, I can tell that. Now everything he says might be exactly what happened but at the beginning for instance, he says he had his NDE while on duty. But he wasn't on duty, he was in bed with flu. Maybe he didn't mean to say that, maybe I'm a dickhead for pointing it out but alarm bells always ring with me.

I think it is just a use of everyday language to summarise what happened. He does explain in detail how he contracted that episode of flu when he was on duty. He also describes how (pretty obviously) it was a couple of days later that he was in bed with flu. There is no contradiction there as far as I can see. I feel perhaps you are looking for holes in the account but if there are any, I don't think that is one of them. It would be strange to expect that someone would become infected and fall ill and have an NDE within a few seconds or minutes. It is normal for it to take a few days for an infection to develop and that is what happened.

"How is it possible that I was convinced I was this person and that I had all these relationships and all these issues? Because none of it was true, it was all an illusion."

This sounds like something I've heard from other people too, maybe as a baffling statement on a deathbed that "this is all an illusion" or something similar.

I've thought about it in a few ways. One of them is on waking from a dream. Sometimes I have very pleasant dreams and would like to have remained within it for longer. But occasionally I might have a nightmarish dream from which I am only too glad to wake up. But in any case, we do distinguish between waking and sleeping states and tend to feel that this waking part is the more real. Presumably when NDEers describe the contrast they feel it is exactly equivalent, that in shifting to another more real level, this present life is considered as more like a dream. If waking from a dream is something we can comprehend, then by extension, waking from this life might also be something we can grasp.

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I think it is just a use of everyday language to summarise what happened. He does explain in detail how he contracted that episode of flu when he was on duty. He also describes how (pretty obviously) it was a couple of days later that he was in bed with flu. There is no contradiction there as far as I can see. I feel perhaps you are looking for holes in the account but if there are any, I don't think that is one of them. It would be strange to expect that someone would become infected and fall ill and have an NDE within a few seconds or minutes. It is normal for it to take a few days for an infection to develop and that is what happened.

I agree. And the footage is all these videos is edited (well done I should say, with the visuals, and little or no syrupy music) so there may be parts left out.

He does explain in detail how he contracted that episode of flu when he was on duty.

He did say he had his NDE on duty. But he didn't. Sorry, Typoz but that's a glaring falsehood slipped in maybe (who knows) to make it sound more dramatic. He contracted flu while on duty, which is not that big a deal. I had it recently and was really ill (like he was) but nowhere near dying (my pulse was 160-180-200 varying) mostly nearer 200.

I feel perhaps you are looking for holes in the account but if there are any, I don't think that is one of them.

 
I think it is and there are others. The description of the beings is a bit cartoonish. And exactly what profound change has his NDE had upon him, he's...still a firefighter, isn't he? (retired) That's fine of course. You can tell the depth of an NDE by the change in people that have had them. I like his story but the way he describes it seems to me a bit ...suspicious.

It would be strange to expect that someone would become infected and fall ill and have an NDE within a few seconds or minutes. It is normal for it to take a few days for an infection to develop and that is what happened.

Yes of course. So why didn't he just say my job is was a firefighter but I wasn't doing that when I had my NDE. I was in bed after contracting flu on duty. Embellishing any story for effect is a bad idea as someone (some asshole) will inevitably pick on it. If you want an NDE from a firefighter on duty, there's one in Greyson's book who had his when an on fire jet plane he was hosing down, exploded.

Edited was a firefighter

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The man is Bill Letson, and I see he's appeared in an IANDS sponsored video. Apparently he's been a frequent presenter at IANDS.




He's in quite a few videos. In this one he describes how he came to read about Rick Strassman's work after his NDE, and was struck by the reappearance in that data of the figures he encountered in his NDE (the three hooded figures, the wispy figure).




This is a very long one where possibly he might give more details about the medical situation. (He starts talking about it at 4:43).

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And exactly what profound change has his NDE had upon him, he's...still a firefighter, isn't he? (retired) That's fine of course. You can tell the depth of an NDE by the change in people that have had them.

I'm not sure what you mean here tim. Do you mean that because he remained a firefighter, that that isn't indicative of profound change?

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He did say he had his NDE on duty. But he didn't. Sorry, Typoz but that's a glaring falsehood slipped in maybe (who knows) to make it sound more dramatic.

We could rightly criticize his specific phrasing in the introduction, but I think it's still an OK way to summarize what he experienced that he had his NDE while in the context of his duty.

This blurb under one of the videos says it of course more accurately:

In 1994, Bill had a profound near death experience as a result of an illness related to his work as a firefighter.

But I get your point that there's always the danger of skeptics pouncing on imprecision, so ideally experients would be very precise. But maybe that's too much to ask of regular people talking in a non-academic or study setting.

I'm not sure what you mean here tim. Do you mean that because he remained a firefighter, that that isn't indicative of profound change?

No, of course not. There are no hard and fast rules about that. I was only expressing my concern, as that report, as much as I might like it, gives me some. But that might be unwarranted. We are allowed to be honest, are we not? If anyone, including yourself or Typoz thinks any of the stuff I post needs addressing, please do, I'd be grateful.

We could rightly criticize his specific phrasing in the introduction, but I think it's still an OK way to summarize what he experienced that he had his NDE while in the context of his duty.

You see that's where one of the problems is. I disagree. He caught flu at work, well don't we all. He could have caught flu going to the supermarket after work or the ball game in the evening.

He specifically says "I had a near death experience when I was on duty". But he didn't. His NDE sounds more enticing because of that and that's why he shouldn't have said it that way. 

I don't want to fall out about this, Ian, nor do I want to browbeat others into accepting my concern. But it is a legitimate criticism (IMO) and if I had been involved in that editing, I would have changed it.