Rupert Spira ‘Just say Yes’

“Whatever we say no to makes us miserable, it’s as simple as that.” (13:30 ish)

But is it?

[Ninshub]

That's acceptance, right? It's a key ingredient to zen, to advaita vedanta, to most spiritual teachings. (The Eastern ones often seem, in my view,  to come down to two core elements, 1 - acceptance, and 2-non-identification with mind or non-identification period.)

When you say "is it", Stan, in what angle do you mean that?

I gather Spira doesn't mean acceptance is a simple process (if you haven't started down the path to enlightenment or whatever you want to call it), but that the truth that unhappiness is caused by lack of acceptance is a simple one.

Hi Ian

My asking “Is it” was asking if it was the true purpose of being here. If we really do achieve a state of total acceptance - is that us done? I really think there is a lot of good to be had in what he’s saying. There’s too much worrying about things we can’t control, or things that are in the past, etc. However, as long as we have an ego I think it’s too much to expect us to achieve the state he’s describing.

[Ninshub]

Personally I have no idea if that's our "purpose" here. I tend to think that is the purpose according to Eastern spiritual schools of thought, but that those don't necessarily mesh with what comes out from NDE "truths" or some of the messages that come out through experiences we talk about this forum about what our "purpose" is. That doesn't mean they don't have merit. But they derive from incarnate human experience, IMO.

Recently I happened to be listening to a fair amount of Spira talks. He's in the vedanta school of thought. That advocates a path of enlightenment through self-inquiry rather than non-thinking, that leads to certain realizations. That doesn't mean your ego stops existing but you gain a distance from it (and everything), from a standpoint of non-identified observation. Or something like that. My understanding anyway.

Personally I have no idea if that's our "purpose" here. I tend to think that is the purpose according to Eastern spiritual schools of thought, but that those don't necessarily mesh with what comes out from NDE "truths" or some of the messages that come out through experiences we talk about this forum about what our "purpose" is. That doesn't mean they don't have merit. But they derive from incarnate human experience, IMO.

Recently I happened to be listening to a fair amount of Spira talks. He's in the vedanta school of thought. That advocates a path of enlightenment through self-inquiry rather than non-thinking, that leads to certain realizations. That doesn't mean your ego stops existing but you gain a distance from it (and everything), from a standpoint of non-identified observation. Or something like that. My understanding anyway.

Yes, once again things appear to be at odds. Personally I’d go for the NDE lessons. To me acceptance is a powerful ‘thing’(what’s a proper name for it?), as is gratefulness, love and others that I can’t remember. But being accepting of evil things that happen to people is a big ask, even though I think it may be ultimately right. But it’s a long way from where we are now imo.Maybe it’s just me, as I think I’d find anyone without an ego a bit bland! 

If we really do achieve a state of total acceptance - is that us done?

No, I don't imagine that we're done, do you ?

I think we (possibly) come back here indefinitely or maybe we incarnate somewhere else. But I think once we get our batteries re-charged (That's what they tell us, isn't it) and we get to see things from a higher perspective…how we could have done better at all sorts of things, we would likely want to come back and experience another life, wouldn't we ? 

The only problem with that is, who would volunteer to experience the dreadful things that are inflicted on human beings and animals. That's why I'm wary of trying to formulate a concept that makes sense because volunteering for Auschwitz, doesn't.

No, I don't imagine that we're done, do you ?

I think we (possibly) come back here indefinitely or maybe we incarnate somewhere else. 

No, I don’t either. 

Oh no! If the Tories keep getting in then that’d be a living hell! 

Yeah, this volunteering for stuff by way of a contract sounds a bit suspect, yet at the same time  it also seems plausible! Ooh my head hurts! 

[Ninshub]

Hi Ian

My asking “Is it” was asking if it was the true purpose of being here. If we really do achieve a state of total acceptance - is that us done? I really think there is a lot of good to be had in what he’s saying. There’s too much worrying about things we can’t control, or things that are in the past, etc. However, as long as we have an ego I think it’s too much to expect us to achieve the state he’s describing.

Personally I like listening to teachers like him, and I don't approach their teachings as a way to ascertain the possible truth underlying everything (which in terms of the Advaita-type wisdoms that equates spiritual progress with deeper knowing means I'm definitely limited in my enlightenment, which I'm fine with). I'm not currently even interested in that. I'm more interested in serenity or peacefulness whatever the truth is, and therefore if such teachings help me in that way, they've done their job.

[Ninshub]

This isn't strictly related to the OP, so tell me if it bothers you and I'll move it Stan (I'm calling you Stan because that's your nick but damn I find that hard ) - but it's a Spira video I found interesting and it relates to this subforum because it's philosophical discussions.

It's Spira explaining how we don't control our thoughts, it's an illusion, and so in that sense there is no free will (?) - anyhow, I found myself convinced by his arguments. Whatever that ends up meaning in the end!

Everything he said wasn't wrong as far as I could tell. If you can take control of your emotions and react happily to anything that's obviously great. The only issue I had was that he more or less argues that there's such a thing as "bad feelings" that you don't want to have, ever. Which he fails to reconcile with his whole thing of "oh but you should still say no to 'unjust' things". Well not based on everything else you said, Rupert. Usually someone then tries to argue there's an objective form of justice or whatever, which is always their version of course, to fix the logic hole.

But a better way is to just acknowledge those other feelings. Since they exist anyways, you might as well make use of them. Negative emotions push you away from what you don't want and positive ones pull you towards what you do. When mixed together they can provide incredible mental focus and drive, so long as you can control it.

It's one of the issues I have with philosophies like these and stoicism, they all just tell you to give up at the end of the day no matter how they try to flower it up. Kill yourself in the most literal sense and become like a plant that just sits there doing nothing. Sure I suppose if that's what someone wants then whatever. I argue that people should stop looking for meaning and purpose and start making it.