Two people have a private conversation over coffee at an isolated cabin. They leave and tell two others what they talked about. One believes them, the other disbelieves them. Is either conclusion rational?
What if they also provide an exact transcript of their conversation?
What if they also provide a video of the conversation?
The answer to all of these is no. Holding any definitive view is irrational regardless of evidence provided. In the same way the two listeners can’t verify their verbal accounts, they also can’t verify the transcript, the video, or any other evidence that could be provided. Thus it is impossible for the talkers to prove anything to the listeners. This does not change no matter how much evidence, from how many different sources you provide. It’s all fundamentally unverifiable. Furthermore, after the event is over, the talkers become listeners themselves, listening to their memories of the event. They too have no rational basis for believing or disbelieving the event took place.
What this illustrates is that all conclusions people make about anything are purely based on faith. This is often an uncomfortable, enraging thing for those who consider themselves rational, evidence based people so I’ve learned and they sometimes react in ways that range from outright angry dismissal and rejection to a sort of pleading logic trying to convince others that it’s not really that way.
This taught me that all arguments are worldview and self image/interest based. For example, a “rationalist” prides themsevles on being logic and evidence based, unlike their enemy, the “non-rationalist” (spiritualists, religious, new age, etc). Being told that they are essentially the same is threatening, so they defend.
Someone who believes they have the backing of an all powerful being, or is conforming to the natural moral laws of reality, or other similar forms of external brown nosing does not want to hear that those things don’t exist or probably wouldn’t care about them if they did.
A person who sees their life as meaningful and special don’t want to hear that all of their choices, likes, and dislikes are all honed to promote genetic survival. That they are only a means to something else’s end.
If someone wants to survive beyond this life, maybe try to do it better next time, try something different, mulligan because they were born into external circumstances they couldn’t change that ruined their happiness. They aren’t going to want to hear that this is all the existence they’ll ever get.
So on and so forth...
I no longer try to be purely rational and evidence based. Partly because of this problem, partly because if you keep asking “Why” long enough you will eventually learn that there is no possible answer and thus reality cannot be based on logic or reason. But mainly because, fuck reality.
It took me awhile to do but I eventually decided that I was not only worth more than what I currently have, but that there is only one reality I’m willing to accept. Which is the one where my past, with all it’s implications, is true. Because deep down, that’s who I am regardless of what actually happened in the past anyways. If it’s not true, then I’d rather everything cease to exist entirely, because fuck that. I didn’t go through all of that, learning everything I did, forming bonds with all those people, for it to just not have happened. It’s not a belief, it’s a decision. I’m not going to appeal to reality and hope that it allows it to be true. I’ll make it true.
I’ve learned there’s two very broad categories that probably all people’s worldviews fit into, Externalism and Internalism. Externalism is believing that the external world is more important than the internal one and Internalism is the opposite.
An externalist treats reality like an authority, asking permission, cowing to it, never questioning it’s dominance over them. Whether this is done through “rationality” or belief in gods, morals and whatnot it doesn’t matter. It’s the same thing. If something doesn’t work, they just throw up their hands and go “that’s reality”. Citing evidence and whatnot to justify giving up or otherwise conforming.
I’m trying to become more of an internalist, someone who first and foremost, values themselves more than the external world and who at the very least attempts to directly shape it with their own will. Not because I believe I can, not because I think reality will allow me to do it, but because it’s what I want. Both successes and failures are due to differences in power between me and anything else involved. I suppose you could say I believe I can do it on principle but I don’t know if such a belief is the same as the rational/spiritualist beliefs due to being knowingly based on desire and nothing else.
I formulated this into something I call the Philosophy of Nightmare a long time ago. Made a little metaphorical story out of it that goes something like this:
“All the worlds a Nightmare. Those who try to escape are consumed, becoming Demons convinced its a Dream. So be darker than the Nightmare until it runs from you. For its only in the places the Nightmare has retreated that Dreams can exist. But the Nightmare will always be there, watching.”
I no longer remember the original version, but that’s close enough.
What if they also provide an exact transcript of their conversation?
What if they also provide a video of the conversation?
The answer to all of these is no. Holding any definitive view is irrational regardless of evidence provided. In the same way the two listeners can’t verify their verbal accounts, they also can’t verify the transcript, the video, or any other evidence that could be provided. Thus it is impossible for the talkers to prove anything to the listeners. This does not change no matter how much evidence, from how many different sources you provide. It’s all fundamentally unverifiable. Furthermore, after the event is over, the talkers become listeners themselves, listening to their memories of the event. They too have no rational basis for believing or disbelieving the event took place.
What this illustrates is that all conclusions people make about anything are purely based on faith. This is often an uncomfortable, enraging thing for those who consider themselves rational, evidence based people so I’ve learned and they sometimes react in ways that range from outright angry dismissal and rejection to a sort of pleading logic trying to convince others that it’s not really that way.
This taught me that all arguments are worldview and self image/interest based. For example, a “rationalist” prides themsevles on being logic and evidence based, unlike their enemy, the “non-rationalist” (spiritualists, religious, new age, etc). Being told that they are essentially the same is threatening, so they defend.
Someone who believes they have the backing of an all powerful being, or is conforming to the natural moral laws of reality, or other similar forms of external brown nosing does not want to hear that those things don’t exist or probably wouldn’t care about them if they did.
A person who sees their life as meaningful and special don’t want to hear that all of their choices, likes, and dislikes are all honed to promote genetic survival. That they are only a means to something else’s end.
If someone wants to survive beyond this life, maybe try to do it better next time, try something different, mulligan because they were born into external circumstances they couldn’t change that ruined their happiness. They aren’t going to want to hear that this is all the existence they’ll ever get.
So on and so forth...
I no longer try to be purely rational and evidence based. Partly because of this problem, partly because if you keep asking “Why” long enough you will eventually learn that there is no possible answer and thus reality cannot be based on logic or reason. But mainly because, fuck reality.
It took me awhile to do but I eventually decided that I was not only worth more than what I currently have, but that there is only one reality I’m willing to accept. Which is the one where my past, with all it’s implications, is true. Because deep down, that’s who I am regardless of what actually happened in the past anyways. If it’s not true, then I’d rather everything cease to exist entirely, because fuck that. I didn’t go through all of that, learning everything I did, forming bonds with all those people, for it to just not have happened. It’s not a belief, it’s a decision. I’m not going to appeal to reality and hope that it allows it to be true. I’ll make it true.
I’ve learned there’s two very broad categories that probably all people’s worldviews fit into, Externalism and Internalism. Externalism is believing that the external world is more important than the internal one and Internalism is the opposite.
An externalist treats reality like an authority, asking permission, cowing to it, never questioning it’s dominance over them. Whether this is done through “rationality” or belief in gods, morals and whatnot it doesn’t matter. It’s the same thing. If something doesn’t work, they just throw up their hands and go “that’s reality”. Citing evidence and whatnot to justify giving up or otherwise conforming.
I’m trying to become more of an internalist, someone who first and foremost, values themselves more than the external world and who at the very least attempts to directly shape it with their own will. Not because I believe I can, not because I think reality will allow me to do it, but because it’s what I want. Both successes and failures are due to differences in power between me and anything else involved. I suppose you could say I believe I can do it on principle but I don’t know if such a belief is the same as the rational/spiritualist beliefs due to being knowingly based on desire and nothing else.
I formulated this into something I call the Philosophy of Nightmare a long time ago. Made a little metaphorical story out of it that goes something like this:
“All the worlds a Nightmare. Those who try to escape are consumed, becoming Demons convinced its a Dream. So be darker than the Nightmare until it runs from you. For its only in the places the Nightmare has retreated that Dreams can exist. But the Nightmare will always be there, watching.”
I no longer remember the original version, but that’s close enough.
"The cure for bad information is more information."