My favourite NDE video.

Gulp. We need a hero.

I had one here, name of Trevor. He had an OBE during an unwell event inside his little trailer home, no one around to project him up into the air. Max didn't like the Dickensian participants (spirits) so it was dismissed.

  https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1trevo...e_nde.html

[Laird]

I had one here, name of Trevor. He had an OBE during an unwell event inside his little trailer home, no one around to project him up into the air. Max didn't like the Dickensian participants (spirits) so it was dismissed.

  https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1trevo...e_nde.html

I believe that falls under exception #1: there were no physical observers, therefore veridical perceptions cannot be verified. Case closed. Let's move on.

[Laird]

Now, if those spirits had instead been real people... oh, sorry, no. Then exception #2 applies: their electromagnetic fields provided all the information necessary to Trevor's compromised electromagnetic field.

I had one here, name of Trevor. He had an OBE during an unwell event inside his little trailer home, no one around to project him up into the air. Max didn't like the Dickensian participants (spirits) so it was dismissed.

  https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1trevo...e_nde.html

Dunno what you're going on about, it was a great NDE, but there's no point saying the OBE was veridical, when it wasn't. The OBE was distinctly different from reality of the enviroment both before, and after he work up, as he openly admits.

Now, if those spirits had instead been real people... oh, sorry, no. Then exception #2 applies: their electromagnetic fields provided all the information necessary to Trevor's compromised electromagnetic field.

I thought it was quite an interesting case (to show to Max). The guy was definitely alone and he does see visually what is below him, from his out of body position, The way the pillows are bent around his head, the light on the wall etc but of course without anyone around to back it up, it's no good. Then again, if there had been anyone around to back it up, that would have disallowed it. (as we've said of course)

Dunno what you're going on about, it was a great NDE, but there's no point saying the OBE was veridical, when it wasn't. The OBE was distinctly different from reality of the enviroment both before, and after he work up, as he openly admits.

Leaving aside veridicality, what is your explanation for him having the perception of floating above his body? Mind model ?

[Laird]

Max_B: to me, your theory seems unfalsifiable. Can you tell us what it would take to falsify it? Is there anything that you would accept as falsification?

Max_B: to me, your theory seems unfalsifiable. Can you tell us what it would take to falsify it? Is there anything that you would accept as falsification?

If somebody saw a hidden, secret, realtime target during a verifiable NDE/OBE. So, if there was no cheating, and the target was secret, could not be guessed, was hidden on high, and was tied to the time of the event (realtime) and verifiable, say in a hospital setting. Then my ideas are wrong, and it might mean something really did leave the body, or something we haven't considered.

I've had to do a 'major' alterations to them before, based on new information, for example IIRC a few years ago, one study of apparitions I read contained a report from a new fishing boat crew-member,  who claims to have seen a recently deceased fisherman who had worked on the same boat entering a door and disappearing, the witness had never seen the deceased crew-member before, so didn't recognize him, hence why he followed him. The fishing boat was at the time traveling at sea, and moving up and down on the swell/waves, and the apparition moved naturally with the boat.

[Laird]

If somebody saw a hidden, secret, realtime target during a verifiable NDE/OBE. So, if there was no cheating, and the target was secret, could not be guessed, was hidden on high, and was tied to the time of the event (realtime) and verifiable, say in a hospital setting. Then my ideas are wrong, and it might mean something really did leave the body, or something we haven't considered.

OK, good, so you don't rule out the possibility of AWARE II coming up with this sort of data point?

I've had to do a 'major' alterations to them before, based on new information, for example IIRC a few years ago, one study of apparitions I read contained a report from a new fishing boat crew-member,  who claims to have seen a recently deceased fisherman who had worked on the same boat entering a door and disappearing, the witness had never seen the deceased crew-member before, so didn't recognize him, hence why he followed him. The fishing boat was at the time traveling at sea, and moving up and down on the swell/waves, and the apparition moved naturally with the boat.

How did this alter your ideas?

OK, good, so you don't rule out the possibility of AWARE II coming up with this sort of data point?

Not at all, but the experiment needs to be solid, and designed to rule out information leakage, otherwise I and others are going to be rightfully skeptical that any hits they claim to get are real. A very very difficult task!!

How did this alter your ideas?

I felt it was a long shot that the fishing boat could have been in the same place at sea, at the same height, on the same swell etc, it destroyed any early preconceptions I had entertained, that information might be tied to absolute positions in spacetime, i.e. a position on the earth, like a place, where a castle was, or an old house was, or where stonehenge was. Following that, I had to change my ideas to allow information to be related to relative positions in spacetime... those ideas have since changed, and been developed much further.