(2017-09-21, 08:10 PM)jkmac Wrote: You don't know whether the brain plays an important activity or not in dreaming.
I would say it is highly likely from the signals the brain gives at the time REM sleep starts. Having spent time in deep sleep giving off primarily delta waves, the brain starts to move towards the theta stage, usually associated with the hypnagogic state but something strange happens instead. The brain makes the body go limp for it's protection and starts to produce bursts of alpha spikes. It is at this point the REM starts and if you wake the sleeper, he/she is likely to report having a dream.
(2017-09-21, 08:55 PM)jkmac Wrote: LIVING WITHOUT A BRAIN
Dr. John Lorber (1915–1996), neurology professor at the University of Sheffield in the United Kingdom, recalled the time in the 1970s when the campus doctor asked him to examine a student whose head was a bit larger than normal. Instead of the normal 4.5-centimeter thickness of brain tissue between the ventricles and the cortical surface, Lorber discovered that the student had only a thin layer of mantle measuring about a millimeter and his cranium was filled mainly with cerebrospinal fluid.
The man had hydrocephalus, a condition in which the cerebrospinal fluid, instead of circulating around the brain, becomes dammed up inside the cranium and leaves no space for the brain to develop normally. Such a condition is usually fatal within the first few months of life. If individuals should survive beyond infancy, they are often severely retarded. In the case of the math major from the University of Sheffield, he had an IQ of 126 and graduated with honors.
Lorber collected research data concerning several hundred people who functioned quite well with practically no brains at all. Upon careful examination, he described some of the subjects as having no "detectable brains."
Dr. Patrick Wall, professor of anatomy at University College, London, stated that there existed "scores" of accounts of people existing without discernable brains.
I need to look into the details, but I think it is possible he had a cerebellum which is the primitive part of the brain. The cortex which was mostly missing is part of the cerebrum. I think the cerebellum may be active during dreaming but don't quote me on this - It's been a long time since I looked at this stuff.
(2017-09-22, 09:20 AM)Brian Wrote: I would say it is highly likely from the signals the brain gives at the time REM sleep starts. Having spent time in deep sleep giving off primarily delta waves, the brain starts to move towards the theta stage, usually associated with the hypnagogic state but something strange happens instead. The brain makes the body go limp for it's protection and starts to produce bursts of alpha spikes. It is at this point the REM starts and if you wake the sleeper, he/she is likely to report having a dream.
You may be making the big mistake of looking at brain waves and other properties, and confusing the brain's reaction or cooperation with level of consciousness and cognition with it's initiation of it.
I can go into a TV and find certain nodes in the electronics that become more or less active, when various types of audio or video content are present on the screen. These activations could be incorrectly interpreted as the TV initiating a certain type of content, whereas the truth this, these brain activities are a reaction to varying input from the remote TV station.
How can we tell the difference? There are a multiple of ways, than I can review, and maybe will during some thread. Apparently Chuck doesn't really want to discuss brain in this thread and I tend to want to honor that desire as he created the thread in the first place.
OTOH- I don't know how you have a complete conversation about dreaming w/o talking about mind vs brain.
A single example I can give you about the brain's possible minor or reactive role in cognition would be the many cases of where patients have had full and complete cognition while "bread dead" or with the brain almost totally disabled.
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(This post was last modified: 2017-09-22, 09:50 AM by jkmac.)
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(2017-09-22, 09:40 AM)jkmac Wrote: You may be making the big mistake looking at brain waves and other properties of confusing the brains reaction or ccoperation with lovel of consciousness and cognition with it's initiation of it.
I can go into a TV and find certain nodes in the electronics that become more or less active when various types of audio or vidio signals or present on the screen. These activations could be incorrectly interpreted as the TV initiating certain type of content, whereas the true this, these activities are a reaction to varying input.
Who can we tell the difference? There are a multiple of ways, than I can review, and maybe will during some thread. Apparently Chuck doesn't really want to discuss brain in this thread and I tend to want to honor that desire as he created the thread in the firs place.
OTOH- I don't know how you have a complete conversation about dreaming w/o talking about mind vs brain.
A single example I can give you about the brain's possible minor or reactive role in cognition would be the many cases of where patients have had full and complete cognition while "bread dead".
You make a good point. The brain is clearly involved but we have no proof it initiates.
(2017-09-22, 09:25 AM)Brian Wrote: I need to look into the details, but I think it is possible he had a cerebellum which is the primitive part of the brain. The cortex which was mostly missing is part of the cerebrum. I think the cerebellum may be active during dreaming but don't quote me on this - It's been a long time since I looked at this stuff.
There are many different cases. The most astounding ones with where the only part of the found in tact was the brain stem. The rest of the brain was a thin sheet of material around a mm thick.
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