Doesn't this piss you off?

She is quite measured overall, Obiwan but I know what you mean.

Thanks Tim. She’d be in good company - many of the major names in the ADC arena go from describing their experiences in their early books to offering full-on explanations of how it all works and why, including the physics behind it. I can understand this once a person becomes convinced however I’ve always found it a bit of a turn-off.

Thanks Tim. She’d be in good company - many of the major names in the ADC arena go from describing their experiences in their early books to offering full-on explanations of how it all works and why, including the physics behind it. I can understand this once a person becomes convinced however I’ve always found it a bit of a turn-off.

I tend to agree - at least in general, I'm not referring to anyone mentioned in this thread. I've been looking into reincarnation for decades, and am pretty well convinced it is a reality, but the "how it all works and why", with or without physics, is something which I still have no real idea about. Many people come up with views in great detail, but it often seems as though such people simply copy one another, potentially constructing a huge illusory wall of "knowledge" which to me seems as much of an obstacle as it might purport to be illuminating.

Thanks Tim. She’d be in good company - many of the major names in the ADC arena go from describing their experiences in their early books to offering full-on explanations of how it all works and why, including the physics behind it. I can understand this once a person becomes convinced however I’ve always found it a bit of a turn-off.

Yes, point taken, Obiwan. That turns me off too. From what I can tell though, Kean doesn't seem to be in that bracket.

What pisses me off is that in newspapers articles the anoxia idea still comes up pretty often. How the heck is hypoxia causing an NDE in people like Pam Reynolds and all the other stanstill/deep hypothermic operations? they are intubated, and breathing decently. i've read an article on an online newspaper in italian today, there were legions of people telling that it was fake news because after 27 minutes of cardiac arrest you are either dead or you suffer permanent brain damage, and it is false. Parnia, and many others, showed that people can be resuscitated even hours after CA, and that there isn't a fixed time limit after which you become a vegetable. God, I hate that. How the heck is people in severe CA having anoxia first place, and even then if you ask most medical professional working in anesthesiology or ICU they know that anoxia produce an extremely wide range of effects, the most common being delirium, with very disorganized thought patterns and difficult memory recall of the event.

Gosh, I mean there are literally legions of people willing to give explanations without any medical basis or without having read even a single literature paper.

What pisses me off is that in newspapers articles the anoxia idea still comes up pretty often. How the heck is hypoxia causing an NDE in people like Pam Reynolds and all the other stanstill/deep hypothermic operations? they are intubated, and breathing decently. i've read an article on an online newspaper in italian today, there were legions of people telling that it was fake news because after 27 minutes of cardiac arrest you are either dead or you suffer permanent brain damage, and it is false. Parnia, and many others, showed that people can be resuscitated even hours after CA, and that there isn't a fixed time limit after which you become a vegetable. God, I hate that. How the heck is people in severe CA having anoxia first place, and even then if you ask most medical professional working in anesthesiology or ICU they know that anoxia produce an extremely wide range of effects, the most common being delirium, with very disorganized thought patterns and difficult memory recall of the event.

Gosh, I mean there are literally legions of people willing to give explanations without any medical basis or without having read even a single literature paper.

Anoxia and hypoxia were ruled out as serious explanations decades ago, Raf. "Debunking" NDE's is not about honest consideration of the facts and looking fairly at the data/evidence, it's about spreading lies and misinformation which then take on a life of their own.

'Sceptics' revel in it, I assure you. Woerlee used to send me emails taunting me about the Reynolds case, saying he'd ruined it  (basically with his propaganda) and I'd better find another one as that was a dead duck. I just used to email him back saying dream on, Gerry only you and Keith say that but you don't really believe it.

Anoxia and hypoxia were ruled out as serious explanations decades ago, Raf. "Debunking" NDE's is not about honest consideration of the facts and looking fairly at the data/evidence, it's about spreading lies and misinformation which then take on a life of their own.

'Sceptics' revel in it, I assure you. Woerlee used to send me emails taunting me about the Reynolds case, saying he'd ruined it  (basically with his propaganda) and I'd better find another one as that was a dead duck. I just used to email him back saying dream on, Gerry only you and Keith say that but you don't really believe it.

That looks like a very immature behaviour from him. that is why I respect Dr Enrico Facco (and others) so much, they might not go "all out" on the idea that NDEs prove afterlife but they are very sober and admit that current science has a really hard time explaining them. Woerlee never did it.

That looks like a very immature behaviour from him. that is why I respect Dr Enrico Facco (and others) so much, they might not go "all out" on the idea that NDEs prove afterlife but they are very sober and admit that current science has a really hard time explaining them. Woerlee never did it.

I actually doubt that Woerlee really believes what he would have us believe (about him) but I don't want to say much more. His position doesn't actually make any sense...he wasn't always a materialist (he told me that) believe it or not.

I actually doubt that Woerlee really believes what he would have us believe (about him) but I don't want to say much more. His position doesn't actually make any sense...he wasn't always a materialist (he told me that) believe it or not.

Well, then people can change a lot!

Anyway, I've seen really terrible articles about NDEs. Some cited parnia telling something like "your brain is still active and you know you are dead" which he himself addressed as something totally fake and that would just make people scared. He never told something like that, it was totally made up to make more money/get more clicks, as the news article would be so scary everyone would have opened the article up.

Some cited parnia telling something like "your brain is still active and you know you are dead"

Newspaper journalists and their young deputy colleagues create articles simply for sensation. There doesn't need to be any truth in them and if challenged they'll just take it down, but by then the damage has been done.

Newspaper journalists and their young deputy colleagues create articles simply for sensation. There doesn't need to be any truth in them and if challenged they'll just take it down, but by then the damage has been done.

Yes, and here in Italy we are plagued by this kind of thing. Fake news and sensational articles are everywhere. Most of them come from right-wing newspapers, but also on the left side of the fence you can find a good amount of fake news. There is no escaping from it.