All matter is a cognitive ‘hallucination,’ even the brain itself

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(2024-12-28, 04:19 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: Can there be causation without linearity, namely the Past-Present-Future division of change?

I don't know if it makes sense to say Time is something outside of Change, as it is Change that suggests a flow of Time in the first place?

Well... outside of a linear flow of time, even past events are not set in stone, so events just happen anywhere in the overall flow. There's nothing logically preventing it, except in cases of a structured flow of linear time where the past cannot be altered once it has happened, the future still undefined.
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”
~ Carl Jung


(This post was last modified: 2024-12-29, 02:49 AM by Valmar.)
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(2024-12-29, 02:49 AM)Valmar Wrote: Well... outside of a linear flow of time, even past events are not set in stone, so events just happen anywhere in the overall flow. There's nothing logically preventing it, except in cases of a structured flow of linear time where the past cannot be altered once it has happened, the future still undefined.

I guess what is unclear to me is the idea of the "Past" as something "out there"....What is the past outside of the memory Experiencers have of Experience?
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


(2024-12-29, 02:59 AM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I guess what is unclear to me is the idea of the "Past" as something "out there"....What is the past outside of the memory Experiencers have of Experience?

Memories merely inform us of a certain flow to things, and we can confirm this flow through confirmation of the current state of Present. It's all we logically have within this stable, predictable physical flow of change through time. Clearly there is a past, especially if we can predict and confirm certain past events through reasoning backwards.

So, the "past" isn't "out there" ~ the "past" is just another useful mental construct related to structured memory. Out there are events that have happened, that we become witness to.
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”
~ Carl Jung


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(2024-12-29, 03:06 AM)Valmar Wrote: Memories merely inform us of a certain flow to things, and we can confirm this flow through confirmation of the current state of Present. It's all we logically have within this stable, predictable physical flow of change through time. Clearly there is a past, especially if we can predict and confirm certain past events through reasoning backwards.

So, the "past" isn't "out there" ~ the "past" is just another useful mental construct related to structured memory. Out there are events that have happened, that we become witness to.

So the past is still out there to be altered? But does everyone's memory get updated to this new past? Is a new timeline created?

I guess what I don't understand is if there's no past in the sense of a block universe - growing or otherwise - where is the past available for alteration?

(2024-12-27, 01:38 AM)Valmar Wrote: Yes, however, we have never once observed this external world is distinct from our subjective phenomenal awareness of it. If you're not at the tree for a while, it has disappeared from your subjective awareness ~ it doesn't exist in your awareness except as a memory.
The question is why is the external world so stable? Why does matter and physics have such consistency, unlike the thoughts and whims in our mind? The answer that you think is that it is because the world must be like how our senses show us. But how can we know that without something to contrast it against? It's easy to believe that something is a certain way when you have only experienced one perspective.

I've seen variations of this argument in different places, and I don't really understand it.

Is a parent's love less consistent than the weather? Is an honorable person's moral code more whimsical than the indeterministic oddities of the QM level from which all matter apparently arises?
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


(This post was last modified: 2024-12-29, 07:33 PM by Sciborg_S_Patel. Edited 1 time in total.)
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(2024-12-29, 04:57 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: So the past is still out there to be altered? But does everyone's memory get updated to this new past? Is a new timeline created?

I don't know, frankly ~ probably? I don't understand how any of that works, though... I'm not even sure of physical reality can be altered like that ~ it's too resistant to easy change, by psychic effects and the like.

Of course, minds aren't physical, so memories could be inserted into the past of a mind, I suppose...? But, that still raises questions...

(2024-12-29, 04:57 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I guess what I don't understand is if there's no past in the sense of a block universe - growing or otherwise - where is the past available for alteration?

There is still a past, in that events have happened ~ there are still the memories of the events that have happened, so everyone who remembers would be able to realize that the past has changed, bringing with uncertainty and despair and confusion. Think the Mandela Effect... I'm not sure how many legitimate cases, if any, there are, but it's a nice example of how to create a mass existential nightmare for people who do claim to experience it.

(2024-12-29, 04:57 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I've seen variations of this argument in different places, and I don't really understand it.

Is a parent's love less consistent than the weather? Is an honorable person's moral code more whimsical than the indeterministic oddities of the QM level from which all matter apparently arises?

For minds, it depends on the strength of conviction and emotion ~ habits and patterns are a lot more dynamic, because they can change and evolve over time, informed by experience ~ a parent's love is dynamic in expression, even if the foundation of it is solid. An honourable person's moral code has generally been hard-won out of many experiences that have shaped it ~ a moral code can be reinforced or altered depending on new experiences which challenge it, to remain strong and firm, or to shift to adapt to new situations.

In some curious sense, strong love and strong moral codes become almost... "archetypal" in that they become foundational and respond in unique ways to different and new events.

Unlike all of this, matter and physical things have very rigidly defined patterns that do not change ~ even with psychic abilities temporarily altered stuff, matter and physical things do not stay altered for very long. On a side note, spiritual and mental energies attached to a physical object is rather different ~ they do not affect the physical habits and patterns of the physical object, so there is no conflict. Only directly effecting the physical nature of an object seems to be temporary.
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”
~ Carl Jung


(This post was last modified: 2024-12-30, 01:49 AM by Valmar. Edited 1 time in total.)
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