A materialist and an NDE proponent go to a stage magic show together

Can I just say that I don't think materialists necessarily have to believe we're aware of all the relevant laws governing the material universe? And if there are laws we don't know about, then in principle there could be materialist theories of psi.

Can I just say that I don't think materialists necessarily have to believe we're aware of all the relevant laws governing the material universe? And if there are laws we don't know about, then in principle there could be materialist theories of psi.

You dear sir blaspheme!

You dear sir blaspheme!

However, I don't think there can be a materialist model of blasphemy.

I'm not sure that reads very well, as experiences which feel real, presumably are still actual experiences, whether they are/are not spiritual or other worldly. I guess you need a better way of describing what you feel are the defining differences between these experiences.

For example, the feeling of "you" leaving your body, seeing yourself from above and then travelling to another place where you meet Jesus suggests that there is a disembodied essence which did so. Leaving your body to fly on a jet to Italy to take part in a business meeting tends to be regarded as a hallucination.

Linda

For example, the feeling of "you" leaving your body, seeing yourself from above and then travelling to another place where you meet Jesus suggests that there is a disembodied essence which did so. Leaving your body to fly on a jet to Italy to take part in a business meeting tends to be regarded as a hallucination.

Linda

Boy, is that a bastardization of how NDEs are reported to feel.

Greyson NDE scale

12. Did you feel separated from your body?
0 = No
1 = I lost awareness of my body
2 = I clearly left my body and existed outside it
13. Did you seem to enter some other, unearthly world?
0 = No
1 = Some unfamiliar and strange place
2 = A clearly mystical or unearthly realm
14. Did you seem to encounter a mystical being or presence, or hear an unidentifiable voice?
0 = No
1 = I heard a voice I could not identify
2 = I encountered a definite being, or a voice clearly of mystical or unearthly origin
15. Did you see deceased or religious spirits?
0 = No
1 = I sensed their presence
2 = I actually saw them

Greyson NDE scale

12. Did you feel separated from your body?
0 = No
1 = I lost awareness of my body
2 = I clearly left my body and existed outside it
13. Did you seem to enter some other, unearthly world?
0 = No
1 = Some unfamiliar and strange place
2 = A clearly mystical or unearthly realm
14. Did you seem to encounter a mystical being or presence, or hear an unidentifiable voice?
0 = No
1 = I heard a voice I could not identify
2 = I encountered a definite being, or a voice clearly of mystical or unearthly origin
15. Did you see deceased or religious spirits?
0 = No
1 = I sensed their presence
2 = I actually saw them

Right, I forgot descriptions of experiences and feelings are limited to scales and numbers

The thing is that "the truth of what happens after death" necessitates that, from the highest perspective, this world is like a stage play. It may not appear that way to us while we are inside of it, and it may not be useful to regard it that way, but it absolutely is true that this world is reasonably viewed as a stage play that we knowingly agreed to participate in in light of what the NDE testimonies are converging on. Hence, it does indeed follow.

Physical reality is an orchestration of individual and collective consciousness which 'project' this world through those consciousness. The only thing that is real is the experiences themselves.

It is not only useful it is imperative to understand the basic (and advanced) energetic states, how vibration separates one thing, one space, one bit of creation from each other. Unless it is your path to enjoy your journey without these fundamentals.

As far as many NDEs are concerned, or perhaps better termed After DE, if you physically expire before your journey is completed, you have the choice to 'stay dead' in spirit, move along to a new vibration (new being, new settings, etc.) and/or return to a parallel world that is almost but not completely the same as the one you just vacated. Many of the classic NDEs are the playing out of that choice.

Right, I forgot descriptions of experiences and feelings are limited to scales and numbers

I don't disagree that NDE researchers' use of the Greyson scale can be misleading with respect to what the experiences are like.

Outside the field of parapsychology, these experiences would be regarded as hallucinations ("a hallucination is a perception in the absence of external stimulus that has qualities of real perception"). However, my point was just that NDE researchers separate the collection of "vivid, substantial, and are perceived to be located in external objective space" experiences which people have in association with medical crises, into "hallucination" or "NDE" based on those questions. That is, it's an NDE if you meet Jesus, but a hallucination if you meet some business associates.

Linda