6.37 sigma replication of Dean Radin's double slit consciousness experiments

Hi there,
Yes that is what the study claims. I am not fully convinced though, to me it looks like a possible demonstration of micro PK more than anything else.

Cheers

Thanks, Bucky. Chaos theory, then is it.

Hi there,
Yes that is what the study claims. I am not fully convinced though, to me it looks like a possible demonstration of micro PK more than anything else.

Cheers

Are those two ways of naming a single phenomenon?

Are those two ways of naming a single phenomenon?

Good question Typoz... I have no idea
I am not sure that an instance of micro PK justifies the leap to saying that consciousness collapses the wave function.

For starters we don't know if such phenomenon exists (the collapse), secondly I am not sure what it really means that consciousness causes  the probability wave to create a specific outcome.

Is it attention that does this? Is it will power? Or is it unconscious? Perhaps all of them?
What about cat consciousness, does it collapse waves too? And what about mosquito proto-consciousness?

Ordinarily we don't need to meditate on collapsing any wave function, yet reality keeps going. So how does it work?
If consciousness makes reality are we really talking just about mental activity of living beings or are we including some all-permeating field, MAL if you wish, which does the "hard work"?

Given the tiny effect that trained meditators exert on the test device I am not sure what role our consciousness really plays.

Sorry, this might be a bunch of confused questions , but I honestly struggle to understand what the premise of the study really means. To avoid further headaches I've always considered it a micro PK study more than anything else.

cheers

Some one said that this paper wasn't yet final?.  G might make some amendments to his paper before it's published to make that point clear, as it's unclear from the paper, and it appears to be a deviation from at least one of Radin's papers. Perhaps this discussion has been useful to him.

In my experience very few researchers welcome criticism of their paper, they tend to be very defensive and protective of their work. But that's what the papers are for, somebody makes a claim in a paper, and other people will come out and challenge the claim.

Especially if the claim is extraordinary.

Good question Typoz... I have no idea
I am not sure that an instance of micro PK justifies the leap to saying that consciousness collapses the wave function.

For starters we don't know if such phenomenon exists (the collapse), secondly I am not sure what it really means that consciousness causes  the probability wave to create a specific outcome.

Is it attention that does this? Is it will power? Or is it unconscious? Perhaps all of them?
What about cat consciousness, does it collapse waves too? And what about mosquito proto-consciousness?

Ordinarily we don't need to meditate on collapsing any wave function, yet reality keeps going. So how does it work?
If consciousness makes reality are we really talking just about mental activity of living beings or are we including some all-permeating field, MAL if you wish, which does the "hard work"?

Given the tiny effect that trained meditators exert on the test device I am not sure what role our consciousness really plays.

Sorry, this might be a bunch of confused questions , but I honestly struggle to understand what the premise of the study really means. To avoid further headaches I've always considered it a micro PK study more than anything else.

cheers

We are a self involved species of animal. It's only human consciousness that's important and the only one that matters. That's the message I've been hearing from the Skeptiko crowd and its defectors generally, present company excluded

Patient for what?  Some of us don't get to sit at home on computers all day. First of all, can you quote this insinuation word for word because I really don't remember seeing one in Max's posts.   Secondly, if I suspect possible fraud, I should have the right to express my opinion - it's called free speech and I have previously come closer to the mark than Max supposedly has when I expressed the possibility that Guy Playfair might not have just been absurdly gullible but makes his living from writing  haunted house stories.  Nobody suggested I was being libellous but then Guy is just a Demi-god next to his Holiness, the divine Radin.  Of course, it is perfectly acceptable for people to accuse people like me and Max of stuff isn't it?

The difference is that you didn't have Playfair come in here, directly contradict your claims/observation/conclusions and carry on as if they never bothered posting a rebuttal to your claims.  

And for the record, I do remember mentioning that a proponent had once made a case against Playfair (before you) in that Skeptiko thread.

...to me it looks like a possible demonstration of micro PK more than anything else.

I... 

Already considered it micro-PK...???

Regardless if it's actual collapse or "simple" photon redirection, Guerrer went out there looking for mind-matter interaction... And solid evidence for either would still prove the hypothesis, wouldn't it?

We are a self involved species of animal. It's only human consciousness that's important and the only one that matters. That's the message I've been hearing from the Skeptiko crowd and its defectors generally, present company excluded

No, Steve. We know that at least some complexity is required to be an 'observer'. You can't really sanitize anything to the point where each and every microorganism is wiped and if it was simply a matter of having some sort of primitive environmental awareness, then bacteria or viruses would be capable of causing the proverbial wave function collapse. That doesn't happen. If it did, it's arguable if we would even know of the existence of the WFC, since it would happen a priori To our involvement with the system unless we ran the test under extrairdinary conditions.