(2017-10-31, 08:20 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]And I agree with you there. Again, there are just too many of these stories from respected and unexpected sources to warrant that hand-wave.
I've collected a lot reports like that from all different sources. Seeing as it's Halloween. Here's another.
I was visiting a elderly woman (recently widowed) about something (can't remember exactly the reason). She wanted to talk about her husband and how she missed him so much. I don't know what made me say it particularly (it's not always welcome is it) but I told her that I believed she would see him again one day ( just trying to make her feel a bit better).
She immediately told me that just before he died (of a cardiac arrest), that very
moment in fact *before he died, he called to her excitedly (happily) to her from another room in the house. It wasn't a shout of "I'm in pain come and help me." It was a "happy puzzled" "just come here a second love" ........that kind of thing.
By the tone of his voice, (very calm) she told me that she knew he was going to tell her that he'd seen somebody or something. I asked her she how knew that, gently. She told me after sixty years together she just knew. Sadly before she could get into the room to see him, he dropped dead.
(2017-10-31, 04:05 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]What is a dog made of ?
Atoms. But it's (the dog's) consciousness is not and we don't know what consciousness is or how it comes about, so we can't even approach it satisfactorily. Your last statement might have some truth in it but it can only ever be speculation until we invent a machine that can somehow "see" consciousness (see it leaving the body) .... and even then we probably won't know what it is.
If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.
I trust those interdimensional travelers with their experiences we cannot even begin to comprehend who teach and support those Laws and axioms that can be found true in any part of Creation. They relate that physical reality is
entirely an illusion of our co-creation. Including atoms, electrons, neutrons (the triad of balance), ghosts, asparagus and you and I.
(2017-10-31, 07:21 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]Tim, I think you and Pssst have different starting points. Again, I don't want to speak for him but I'm guessing he will say that the atoms are manifested consciousness too. It boils down to some form of dualism or some form of idealism.
Pssst is an It.
heh
No matter how many times anyone says "
Everything" in physical reality is illusory, self-created props, there is always someone who will say "but..."
(2017-10-31, 11:34 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]Pssst is an It.
heh
No matter how many times anyone says "Everything" in physical reality is illusory, self-created props, there is always someone who will say "but..."
But ...
I don't think discussions would get very far if the answer to
Everything was - "it's just an illusion". We have to live within the bounds of that illusion, self-created though they may be. I'm not going to test the illusion by jumping off a cliff or thrusting my flesh into a fire. The illusion is real enough while we are immersed in it.
(2017-10-31, 11:11 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.
I trust those interdimensional travelers with their experiences we cannot even begin to comprehend who teach and support those Laws and axioms that can be found true in any part of Creation. They relate that physical reality is entirely an illusion of our co-creation. Including atoms, electrons, neutrons (the triad of balance), ghosts, asparagus and you and I.
If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.
I don't think patience will be enough because it will more than likely never happen. Furthermore, it's obvious elusive nature suggests that we're probably not meant to be 'bumping into it' too often, so to speak. Wouldn't that spoil the game, possibly leading many to want to abandon it for something better. Don't know.
(2017-10-31, 11:46 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]But ...
I don't think discussions would get very far if the answer to Everything was - "it's just an illusion". We have to live within the bounds of that illusion, self-created though they may be. I'm not going to test the illusion by jumping off a cliff or thrusting my flesh into a fire. The illusion is real enough while we are immersed in it.
IOW, you trust that the collective agreement you chose to observe during your Earth Life that if you do these kinds of things, you will end up with the exact results as stipulated by the collective agreement. Said collective agreement is nothing more than the rules of the illusion.
Who sets those bounds? You do by your beliefs and definitions. You can even renegotiate the collective agreement- option not available to us until recently - by creating (switching to) a physical reality that has no gravity, or no injury...IF it is relevant to your journey of discovery.
(2017-11-01, 01:35 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]If you need a machine or some other technology to "see" consciousness, then follow that path. Be very patient.
I don't think patience will be enough because it will more than likely never happen. Furthermore, it's obvious elusive nature suggests that we're probably not meant to be 'bumping into it' too often, so to speak. Wouldn't that spoil the game, possibly leading many to want to abandon it for something better. Don't know.
It has already happened in the ET communities, many of which are ourselves from a future time - so to speak. Consciousness is the very basis of their existence, they "bump" into it as due course. The 'game' is exquisitely enhanced.
(2017-11-01, 05:44 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]It has already happened in the ET communities, many of which are ourselves from a future time - so to speak. Consciousness is the very basis of their existence, they "bump" into it as due course. The 'game' is exquisitely enhanced.
What I meant was that I suspect there is a good reason why the soul is so hard to detect (at least by appearance). I think some people might be tempted to bale out before their time but I don't know, maybe they wouldn't.
I know I'm going to regret asking but I'm curious
how do you know ? (a machine that can see consciousness has already happened in some alien civilisation ? ). Call me a tad "backward" but it's somewhat beyond my boggle factor.
(2017-10-30, 11:40 AM)Steve001 Wrote: [ -> ]Suggestions then.
You don't want suggestions. You've been given plenty of those already. You want certainty accompanied by the official stamp of approval from the status quo. Too bad certainty is an illusion
(2017-10-31, 11:46 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]But ...
I don't think discussions would get very far if the answer to Everything was - "it's just an illusion". We have to live within the bounds of that illusion, self-created though they may be. I'm not going to test the illusion by jumping off a cliff or thrusting my flesh into a fire. The illusion is real enough while we are immersed in it.
It's like Donald Hoffman says: we can't take what we perceive
literally, but that doesn't have to mean that we can't take it
seriously. Whatever a speeding train literally is, it surely can seriously damage us if we step in front of it.