(2017-10-29, 08:30 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]But that is Cox's argument, as quoted in that article - that it's "almost inconceivable" that an unknown mechanism of interaction would have escaped detection by the Large Hadron Collider.
He's says that because The Standard Model of physics does a really good job of explaining the four fundamental forces and classifying predicting particles. Here's the rub. Ghosts are historically commonplace in every culture and not some rare phenomenon. That should make them conspicuous and easily detectable. From a physics point of view there are so many how and why questions. From a spiritual perspective ghosts exist done deal.
(2017-10-29, 09:24 PM)Steve001 Wrote: [ -> ]He's says that because The Standard Model of physics does a really good job of explaining the four fundamental forces and classifying predicting particles.
But you just said an unknown interaction between consciousness and matter can't be ruled out on that basis. So you do think Cox's argument is wrong?
(2017-10-29, 08:30 PM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]But that is Cox's argument, as quoted in that article - that it's "almost inconceivable" that an unknown mechanism of interaction would have escaped detection by the Large Hadron Collider.
It's okay for things like gravitons, strings, extra dimensions, super symmetric particles (sparticles), just to name a few, remain out of reach of the LHC. In fact, it's even okay to use the math to conveniently push them beyond the reach of the LHC in order to keep popular theories alive when non-detections do happen.
But unpopular things like consciousness, ghosts, etc HAVE to be detected NOW, or it's woo-woo.
Perfectly logical, Cox's argument is .... :/
(We'll leave out the fact that it's pretty naive for Cox to assume in the first place that the "everything-is-made-of-particles" idea will hold forever)
(2017-10-27, 11:30 AM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Assuming you haven't made that up, Steve (as proponent bait) what you've told us there is very common. What do you think about it, you haven't told us ?
The second bit about 'why is it naïve' to ask how a "ghost" can skirt the laws of Physics (Newtons' or spooky quantum action or both ? ? ).
It isn't naïve [Steve] if you've never had access to any possible "answers." But you have and yet you keep returning to the simplistic
....tell us what a ghost is made out of or shut the fuck up kind of thing (basically)
What is a dog made of? A fishing pole? A physically materializing spirit?
You create your reality by stringing together
static 'frames' from parallel realities billions of times/sec (Planck time). A ghost is no different, it is consciousness existing at a different vibratory level.
(2017-10-30, 08:04 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]What is a dog made of? A fishing pole? A physically materializing spirit?
You create your reality by stringing together static 'frames' from parallel realities billions of times/sec (Planck time). A ghost is no different, it is consciousness existing at a different vibratory level.
What is a dog made of ?
Atoms. But it's (the dog's) consciousness is not and we don't know what consciousness is or how it comes about, so we can't even approach it satisfactorily. Your last statement might have some truth in it but it can only ever be speculation until we invent a machine that can somehow "see" consciousness (see it leaving the body) .... and even then we probably won't know what it is.
(2017-10-31, 04:05 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]What is a dog made of ?
Atoms. But it's (the dog's) consciousness is not and we don't know what consciousness is or how it comes about, so we can't even approach it satisfactorily. Your last statement might have some truth in it but it can only ever be speculation until we invent a machine that can somehow "see" consciousness (see it leaving the body) .... and even then we probably won't know what it is.
Tim, I think you and Pssst have different starting points. Again, I don't want to speak for him but I'm guessing he will say that the atoms are manifested consciousness too. It boils down to some form of dualism or some form of idealism. I tend towards the latter but I agree that, for our purposes here in this world, a distinction between a personal consciousness and consciousness as an all-pervading fundamental is necessary.
(2017-10-31, 07:21 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]Tim, I think you and Pssst have different starting points. Again, I don't want to speak for him but I'm guessing he will say that the atoms are manifested consciousness too. It boils down to some form of dualism or some form of idealism. I tend towards the latter but I agree that, for our purposes here in this world, a distinction between a personal consciousness and consciousness as an all-pervading fundamental is necessary.
Thanks, Dave
I've not expressed myself very well there. To be honest, it was only really an attempt to be polite. Psssst (whoever he/she is)
is a bit off the wall for me (I think that's fair to say) but it takes all sorts to make an interesting forum.
As regards definitions I suppose I'm with you but I usually don't like to have a label. I'm quite sure however that we are embodied spirits and that "ghosts" (look away now sceptics) exist.
I recently had an interesting conversation with the daughter of a renowned physician (recently deceased). He was extremely cautious with his views on near death experiences and related phenomena. Publicly he never would have revealed this, that's for sure but one night (a year or two ago) he was awoken by the apparition of his wife sitting on his bed (they had separate rooms). She summoned him to get up and he subsequently discovered she had fallen in her bathroom. I think she died relatively quickly after that.
Of course, it doesn't prove anything but it's surely a bit silly for anyone to just hand-wave that away as a hallucination.
(2017-10-31, 07:57 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Of course, it doesn't prove anything but it's surely a bit silly for anyone to just hand-wave that away as a hallucination.
And I agree with you there. Again, there are just too many of these stories from respected and unexpected sources to warrant that hand-wave.