(2020-01-07, 04:51 AM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]There's no point arguing about things like climate change on a forum. Words change nothing.
I think they can if the reader is prepared to consider them. After all there aren’t many more effective ways to communicate ideas and information than words are there?
(2020-01-07, 03:17 PM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]Action is what actually causes change. Words in and of themselves do nothing no matter how inspiring you think they are. Without the action to back it up, talking is about as effective as doing nothing. Besides we're not talking about trying to form a concrete plan of action with another person with intent to carry it out. We're talking about arguing with random people on the internet. Time and effort that could be better spent actually doing something about whatever problem someone sees in the world. Even if words can be a catalyst there's no guarantee they will be or that they'll inspire anyone to do anything that would actually help the situation. Whereas you can guarantee that if you take specific action to help solve a problem you will have some direct effect on it. People might even pitch in and help out once they see you working, thus increasing the effect you were already having. So words are better used to talk about what you're actually, personally doing to help rather than complaining to others about what they are or are not doing.
Action leads to change that’s true. How is the call to action made without words?
Laird,
Do you really think it's good for PsienceQuest to be the place for meta-commentary on the practices of Skeptiko? If you as an admin/mod are allowed to do it why shouldn't anyone else from over there come here to voice their complaints?
I thought the whole point of PsienceQuest was to just up and leave Skeptiko, especially for those of us who didn't have any intention for trying to undo our bannings?
(2020-01-07, 04:45 PM)fls Wrote: [ -> ]And this goes both ways. As you pointed out, LoneShaman and David don't have the wherewithal to form opinions on Climate Science, yet they come in with decided opinions anyways, ignoring what those with the wherewithal to do so say about the strength of the evidence.
Mmm... and re this, I think perhaps you and I have fairly similar views as to how to assess the truth about areas of science outside of our own base of knowledge/understanding/expertise (you started a couple of threads about this early on in this forum's history).
(2020-01-08, 12:15 AM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Laird,
Do you really think it's good for PsienceQuest to be the place for meta-commentary on the practices of Skeptiko? If you as an admin/mod are allowed to do it why shouldn't anyone else from over there come here to voice their complaints?
I thought the whole point of PsienceQuest was to just up and leave Skeptiko, especially for those of us who didn't have any intention for trying to undo our bannings?
Hi Sci,
It's not something I think should be a regular, ongoing thing, but it has a precedent in earlier threads, and I can't recall whether we made any particular decision as to whether or not to allow it back then. If you can point to anything, then I'm open to having my memory corrected. I'm also open to a discussion here and now as to whether meta-commentary on Skeptiko should be allowed on Psience Quest. My view is that it might be OK in moderation when it comes up naturally, but that it shouldn't be a focus for the forum, or encouraged, or have any thread dedicated to it or the like.
I'm not trying to set up a double-standard for admins/mods versus the rest of membership - ordinary members
have been voicing their complaints in this thread too, and other members from Skeptiko are free to join. I guess you're raising the possibility that members from Skeptiko might join
merely to complain about Skeptiko? That seems unlikely to me - and I would expect and hope anyway that anybody thinking of such a thing would in the end stick around to participate in other discussions on the forum.
(2020-01-07, 03:17 PM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]Action is what actually causes change. Words in and of themselves do nothing no matter how inspiring you think they are. Without the action to back it up, talking is about as effective as doing nothing.
Though I still think words can effect change, I also understand your point. The motto of my high school, which I think was a good one, for example, was "Deeds not words".
(2020-01-07, 03:17 PM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]Besides we're not talking about trying to form a concrete plan of action with another person with intent to carry it out. We're talking about arguing with random people on the internet.
Fair enough. I often wonder whether my time is wasted posting to forums. On the other hand, you never know who's reading, and the effect what you write will have on them.
(2020-01-08, 12:38 AM)Laird Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Sci,
It's not something I think should be a regular, ongoing thing, but it has a precedent in earlier threads, and I can't recall whether we made any particular decision as to whether or not to allow it back then. If you can point to anything, then I'm open to having my memory corrected. I'm also open to a discussion here and now as to whether meta-commentary on Skeptiko should be allowed on Psience Quest. My view is that it might be OK in moderation when it comes up naturally, but that it shouldn't be a focus for the forum, or encouraged, or have any thread dedicated to it or the like.
I'm not trying to set up a double-standard for admins/mods versus the rest of membership - ordinary members have been voicing their complaints in this thread too, and other members from Skeptiko are free to join. I guess you're raising the possibility that members from Skeptiko might join merely to complain about Skeptiko? That seems unlikely to me - and I would expect and hope anyway that anybody thinking of such a thing would in the end stick around to participate in other discussions on the forum.
Well there was talk of this being a sister site to Skeptiko, which I took to mean we wouldn't bec[o]me the bashing forum for people annoyed by something there to come here to complain about it.
There was probably a time when Skeptiko was one of the premiere locations for questions regarding consciousness [as it intersects with the paranormal], when that was Alex's primary interest. Now that Alex pursues other interests I guess I find little of what goes on there having much relevance to what goes on here. For example Climate Change debates - and the attendant conspiracy theories - are quite common across the Internet.
(2020-01-08, 01:02 AM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Well there was talk of this being a sister site to Skeptiko, which I took to mean we wouldn't became the bashing forum for people annoyed by something there to come here to complain about it.
Fair enough. And I didn't intend for this thread to become a "bashing" thread, although in hindsight I ought to have recognised the obvious potential for that to happen. (I just wanted to make public that I had been banned there, and then rebanned, given that David wasn't willing to make the announcement himself in other than oblique terms).
Per sensible private suggestion, have moved this thread from the Forum Questions, Suggestions and Announcements forum to the Other Topics forum, given that it's not an announcement of anything relevant to PQ itself.
(2020-01-08, 12:42 AM)Laird Wrote: [ -> ]Though I still think words can effect change, I also understand your point. The motto of my high school, which I think was a good one, for example, was "Deeds not words".
Fair enough. I often wonder whether my time is wasted posting to forums. On the other hand, you never know who's reading, and the effect what you write will have on them.
I don't think talking on forums is in and of itself useless, but if you're really looking to inspire and catalyse and all that, it's probably not going to happen by arguing about stuff you're doing nothing about. I'm not immune to this either but I've been making sure to try and only post relevant things on here and for the most part I do okay. Most of what I post, thread wise, is about stuff I'm doing with magic or experiences I've had, what they've taught me and how they're related to my single overall goal of magic. I also explicitly open them all up for people to ask questions of but
strangely almost no one ever has. Instead people seem intent to argue about really stupid things that don't matter regardless of which side is right. I think you've actually replied to more of any of my threads asking anything at all than anyone, you might in fact be on the only one who's
ever replied, though I'd have to go back and check. I know that's not true of some of what's till on Skeptiko though.
You'd
think the prospect of trying to develop straight up real magic would be a topic people might want to talk about, like how would you do it, what are the roadblocks, how do you get around them, reporting what happens during certain trials and stuff. But no, apparently people aren't all that interested in trying any of this stuff themselves or helping people who are. Arguing about the definitions of affect and effect is
way more important than something like
that.