(2021-02-01, 02:50 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Okay but jargon is not a good thing, is it ? I don't care for it, personally because I suspect it's simply pretentious and there to impress rather than inform.
Depends on the person, I guess. If you're in a profession with a lot of specialization, jargon can be useful shorthand.
(2021-02-01, 04:06 PM)Will Wrote: [ -> ]Depends on the person, I guess. If you're in a profession with a lot of specialization, jargon can be useful shorthand.
Shorthand is precisely what it isn't, I would have thought.
(2021-02-01, 03:16 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Above posts were posted in the wrong thread, Maybe Laird or Ian could clean this up, many thanks !
No problem, tim: posts permanently deleted.
(2021-02-01, 03:41 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]Really? what makes you think that?
I think we need to get our feet back on the ground and recognise that a non-functional brain is a non-functional brain. Stick DMT or anything else in there, the brain is still non-functioning. Just how do you propose that a brain which is shut down would "make you trip balls"?
They don't have to give an explanation, Typoz. All they have to do is say
something (anything) that sounds even remotely plausible and before you can say 'NDE's are a load of baloney', it takes on a life of it's own. (sceptic bashing day, sorry
)
(2021-02-01, 02:14 PM)Will Wrote: [ -> ]What percentage of rats?
(2021-02-01, 03:41 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]Really? what makes you think that?
I think we need to get our feet back on the ground and recognise that a non-functional brain is a non-functional brain. Stick DMT or anything else in there, the brain is still non-functioning. Just how do you propose that a brain which is shut down would "make you trip balls"?
Sorry Will I don't know, I couldn't find it among all the jargon.
And yes, a non functioning brain is non functioning, but NDEs don't always happen when the brain is non functioning. Plus, drug trips can be signalled by a drop in brain activity, so how can all of this relate? I feel like if we're going to defend NDEs seriously we've got to properly take apart these attempts to explain them and that involves maybe giving them a bit more weight then they deserve, so we can better take them down. Can't just become complacent and get sideswiped by some brand new discovery or something. Example being like a said, drugs generally drop brain activity, except in DMT where it drops it while also making it wildly chaotic, unlike what NDEs are generally like, another point against it.
Found this article on Reality Sandwich. It's from a guy who, at least based on his very small YT channel, studies psychedelics, altered states of consciousness and philosophies of consciousness.
https://realitysandwich.com/does-the-hum...-make-dmt/
According to him, based on comments from Nichols and Borjigin regarding the 2019 study, the brain possibly does produce DMT, but not necessarily enough to be comparable to an NDE, and the rest is just speculative based on the rats in cardiac arrest. This came out in January 2021 and mainly references Borjin, Nichols and Straussman.
This isn't the first time he's addressed DMT in the brain, and NDEs, either:
https://realitysandwich.com/near-death-experiences/
In this article he takes a more balanced approach, mainly to NDEs.
Anyways, focusing on the first article, is there anything in there to take note of/be concerned about?
(2021-02-05, 01:28 AM)OmniVersalNexus Wrote: [ -> ]Found this article on Reality Sandwich. It's from a guy who, at least based on his very small YT channel, studies psychedelics, altered states of consciousness and philosophies of consciousness.
https://realitysandwich.com/does-the-hum...-make-dmt/
According to him, based on comments from Nichols and Borjigin regarding the 2019 study, the brain possibly does produce DMT, but not necessarily enough to be comparable to an NDE, and the rest is just speculative based on the rats in cardiac arrest. This came out in January 2021 and mainly references Borjin, Nichols and Straussman.
This isn't the first time he's addressed DMT in the brain, and NDEs, either: https://realitysandwich.com/near-death-experiences/
In this article he takes a more balanced approach, mainly to NDEs.
Anyways, focusing on the first article, is there anything in there to take note of/be concerned about?
Thing is, we don't actually know how psychedelics work to begin with. Most assume they just create hallucinations, although all information is correlational. The problem is, we know from studies that these drugs lower brain function whilst heightening the lucidity of experience. For instance, Ketamine effectilvely turns off a part of the brain called the default mode network which is responsible in some way for our sense of separate self. Notice that the effects only take place once this area is SWITCHED OFF, which to me suggests that the more natural state is the ketamine induced one. So I would argue that DMT and other psychoactive chemicals are kind of metaphorically opening a doorway to the spiritual, or lessening the filtering capability of the brain. If DMT is produced in enough quantities in Near Death states, this could just easily be the medium through which we disassociate from the body.
Nichols still seems to be very critical of the theory. He argues that it's more than likely a waste product with no function at all.
These parts stood out to me though:
Quote:In the cerebral cortex, the wrinkled outer surface of the brain where psychedelics typically have their effects, they found DMT. DMT was measured in concentrations similar to other neurotransmitters, like serotonin and dopamine. The DMT was found at a concentration of around 0.5 nano Molar (nM), half a billionth of a mole, which is a standard unit of concentration. Neuroscientist Andrew Gallimore and Rick Strassman had previously collaborated in order to simulate how DMT concentrations might be reliably controlled in an experimental setting and found that a concentration of around 300nM is required for a full DMT trip to “DMT space”. Could the concentration of DMT in the brain increase 600 fold in situations of mortal threat, producing the near-death experience?
Quote:Jon Dean and Jimo Borjigin went on to test this idea directly by measuring the levels of DMT in the rat brain during cardiac arrest. Remarkably, they found that there was a spike in DMT at death, as would be expected if DMT produced near-death experiences. The maximum increase was 10 fold above the average baseline, from 0.5nM to 5nm. While this falls short of the dramatic 600 fold increase that would be necessary if the baseline level is similar in humans, there’s no ruling out that DMT levels might be different in the human brain. What’s more, the brain might be more sensitive to DMT during the near-death state. According to Jimo Borjigin:
Quote:“During near-death states, the brain activity that supports non-essential activities, such as walking, is severely reduced. So far scientists have studied experiences when people are fully awake, when they have many other types of brain activity going on. So in order to have a psychedelic experience, you need high levels of DMT that rise above the other noise that our brain is generating. At the near-death state, the level of DMT needed to contribute to a near-death experience may not be at the same level as for normal people having a normal psychedelic experience.”
I swear I recall seeing a video from Parnia where he addresses the DMT theory...but I do know that Parnia has said in the past that the brain, during NDE conditions, is not in a state where something like DMT would have an effect. There also still isn't evidence that a sufficient amount is dumped in our brains while in a near-death state.
(2021-02-05, 01:57 AM)OmniVersalNexus Wrote: [ -> ]Nichols still seems to be very critical of the theory. He argues that it's more than likely a waste product with no function at all.
These parts stood out to me though:
I swear I recall seeing a video from Parnia where he addresses the DMT theory...but I do know that Parnia has said in the past that the brain, during NDE conditions, is not in a state where something like DMT would have an effect. There also still isn't evidence that a sufficient amount is dumped in our brains while in a near-death state.
Andrew Gallimore and Rick Strassman think DMT opens a gate to a different level/kind of reality.
I can't imagine how their work can somehow bring a materialist interpretation to NDEs. No matter what there are going to be chemical shifts in the brain during an NDE, that there's an influx of DMT is just part of that.