(2018-11-19, 10:44 AM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]On the same topic (at first I thought it was the same article):
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...es-and-dmt
Near-Death Experiences and DMT
A neurological explanation of NDEs remains elusive.
Interesting, Typoz
In this French documentary (sorry no English subtitles yet), Stephen Laureys agrees that a
neurological explanation of NDEs remains elusive. @17.10 he gives his opinion on the state of play
(Summary) "The dogmatic materialist explanation that it was the substances, chemical reactions etc that explain it (NDE)... ...well is it ? Did it explain it ? No but also the other extremes (as he calls it) like some form of energy (to explain it)...well is it that ? Can you give me a hypothesis, something I can test ?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpsJ4o5C4Hg&t=1065s
My take on this is that it's finally getting through to the unbiased researchers that there really might be something going on beyond the brain (I mean there is, most of us on here know that) but scientifically they can't approach it under the restrictions of their current scientific models.
EDIT : (Summary) @45.46 Laureys gets a bit more daring, inviting interested groups to come together to be more clear about what "not in the brain" means and where is it precisely.
(2018-11-19, 04:43 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting, Typoz
In this French documentary (sorry no English subtitles yet), Stephen Laureys agrees that a neurological explanation of NDEs remains elusive. @17.10 he gives his opinion on the state of play
(Summary) "The dogmatic materialist explanation that it was the substances, chemical reactions etc that explain it (NDE)... ...well is it ? Did it explain it ? No but also the other extremes (as he calls it) like some form of energy (to explain it)...well is it that ? Can you give me a hypothesis, something I can test ?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpsJ4o5C4Hg&t=1065s
My take on this is that it's finally getting through to the unbiased researchers that there really might be something going on beyond the brain (I mean there is, most of us on here know that) but scientifically they can't approach it under the restrictions of their current scientific models.
EDIT : (Summary) @45.46 Laureys gets a bit more daring, inviting interested groups to come together to be more clear about what "not in the brain" means and where is it precisely.
It seems to me that whatever the mechanism(s), one would also need to account for veridical content.
The Daily Grail has an article about a new study comparing the "semantic similarity" of NDE reports with the effects of 165 psychoactive drugs (Bruce Greyson is among the authors). The most similar drug was found to be ketamine, followed by Salvia divinorum, and then "a series of serotonergic psychedelics" including DMT.
In conclusion, the researchers note, their semantic comparison between NDE narratives and psychedelic trip reports provides evidence “that ketamine (and to a lesser extent different serotonergic psychedelics and deliriant alkaloids) can produce an altered state of consciousness resembling near-death.” They warn, however, that it is still “neither possible to corroborate nor refute the hypothesis that the release of an endogenous ketamine-like neuroprotective agent underlies NDE phenomenology.”
https://www.dailygrail.com/2019/02/psych...xperience/
The abstract of the paper is here, but the full text seems to be behind a paywall:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30711788
Quote:“neither possible to corroborate nor refute the hypothesis that the release of an endogenous ketamine-like neuroprotective agent underlies NDE phenomenology.”
Surely it is already refuted.
Quote:“neither possible to corroborate nor refute the hypothesis that the release of an endogenous ketamine-like neuroprotective agent underlies NDE phenomenology.”
I get these guys are probably discussing non veridical aspects of NDEs, and they might be right in that regard. But ketamine doesn't have much on NDEs because they don't explain the "paranormal" aspects of the experiences, the ones in the end that will prove things one way or another for most of us here.
Unless you wanna argue that ketamine is a non fatal trigger for real mind-body separation in the sense I'm thinking of, and that is pretty hard to reconcile with a materialistic model of consciousness. So you're bound to lose either way trying to pin this down to a physical explanation
Do they emulate the veridical elements of NDEs?
(2019-02-27, 08:57 AM)Obiwan Wrote: [ -> ]Do they emulate the veridical elements of NDEs?
Apparently not, as this study just considered the "semantic similarity" of the descriptions.
Yeah, that's where most of that debate lies as far as known substances and NDE similarities go. In the parts of the experience you can't really verify, the subjective aspect. If it did emulate the veridical elements, I think we wouldn't be talking about NDEs here anymore. And probably would've been a settled topic a long time ago
(2019-02-27, 03:01 PM)Desperado Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, that's where most of that debate lies as far as known substances and NDE similarities go. In the parts of the experience you can't really verify, the subjective aspect. If it did emulate the veridical elements, I think we wouldn't be talking about NDEs here anymore. And probably would've been a settled topic a long time ago
I see what you mean. I'd suggest if the veridical component was achieved, it wouldn't really be appropriate to consider it an emulation, it would be an actual something.