2020-05-16, 10:10 PM
(2020-05-16, 05:18 PM)Mediochre Wrote: [ -> ]How hard do you think vegans are going to push back against, ignore and deny the slowly but steadily growing evidence that plants do respond to trauma and anticipation of trauma, can learn, and are thus probably conscious, making them screwed either way? I'm guessing it's going to be quite a lot, but that's always been my contention. Something is suffering either way so you might as well enjoy the taste till there's a real solution.......
Heh? Hehe, ahhh
Why thank you for pressing "us vegans" for an answer, Mediochre, here's mine;
When I turned vegetarian (in a family that all ate meat) back in 1990ish, aged 12-13, I encountered many such arguments as you present here. Numerous versions and numerous times. Open mindedly, I have looked into and tried to consider all such arguments, and find them to be quite transparently arguments to justify and rationalise individual's taste buds, and nothing at all related to reality, morality, love or compassion etc. I mean, it's not too difficult to state plants do not have a central nervous system therefore clearly do not process pain, suffering and death in the way that sentient beings which DO have a CNS do. One could could get deeper down the rabbit hole by stating there is clearly a circle of life where all life subsists on other life, and that plants are simply designed by nature to be food for other living beings, and that in some circumstances some animals are designed/destined to be eaten by other animals and humans. Ethics, morality and the choices we make comes in whereby we engage in that cycle of life subsisting on other life with the ethic of minimising suffering as much as possible, and with compassion, clarity and awareness. I do not find this to be a viable option in the West when it comes to eating meat or, as I have recently appreciated, any dairy products. They are not needed, indeed as I have learnt by experience as well as education are harmful to health, and are said to be damaging to the environment etc That it is not to say, however, that the shaman or indigenous society in the rainforest or Siberian plains who hunts and eats meat - always with deep respect, reverence and awareness of both hunter and hunted's place in nature, an alien concept to the mass produced animal product companies in the world today - is committing some sort of "sin", or is out of touch with nature (as absurd as that even is to suggest about indigenous cultures!).
Anyway, as one of these "vegans" you claim must be ignorant about plant sentience, the following book arrived a few days ago for me:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plant-Intellige...1591431352
I should also mention that I have encountered the "souls" of plant intelligence in a variety of both natural and entheogenic altered states of consciousness. They sure have something to say! I have encountered the "soul" of "Gaia" (who showed me the destruction of human civilisation due to pulling oil out of the planet - this was 24 odd years ago before I had any knowledge or concern about environmental issues, or problems with fossil fuel use) back as a teenager whilst following a guru. I have met "Mother Nature" personified as an old woman in a forest (terrifying, yet unbelievable loving, btw ) on Salvia, and consider psilocybin mushrooms, and fungi in general, to be an "ally" on my own life path. I also started seeing faces in trees over the past few years, I mean ridiculously clearly and in every tree, though I suspect that may be an artefact of high dose psilocybin journeys
So that is one vegan's take on your argument. Doesn't really represent the choice to be a vegan at all, imo.