What If Everything Is Alive?

I get the feeling that physicists like Stapp, and to some extent all of us, have lived and breathed the idea that there is a non-physical realm, whereas most scientists are coming to this fresh - forced into a corner. I think they are blundering about and hoping to invent a non-physical realm that doesn't really affect the rest of their work!

I mean normally scientists propose a hypothesis and then try to apply it - panpsychism gets proposed and then left on its own, unloved.

From what I've read Stapp's original concern was the growing clamor that humans had no ability to choose and what this would mean for humanity. IIRC he wanted to show how mind could employ top-down causation on the body, but nothing more.

He posited some ideas in Beyond Physicalism that might connect his thinking on quantum mind to Psi, NDEs, and other phenomena. However even in that book it seemed he was only speaking theoretically rather than outright endorsing such things. In his books he did talk about Panpsychism and Whitehead, can't remember if he endorsed any idea of God in them though.

Later on he seemed a bit more open, co-authoring an essay in Sci Am that advocated for Idealism. I feel like he might have said more on the subject of the paranormal and/or Idealism/Theism but would have to check.

edit: Ah he did here in Appendix 4.

The existence of experimenter effect undermines the scientific method itself, unfortunately, and unfortunately it is real. An experimenter meditating on the success of his experiment is trying unscientifically to influence the results and is "mucking up the works" of science, so to speak.

Well, suppose for example that Dean Radin set up his presentiment experiment and ran it on himself. It would be interesting to see if he got a higher score than most or all of his usual subjects, simply because it was his experiment. I wonder if he has tried that?

That would not preclude someone else checking his equipment after he had finished.

However, yes I agree, the experimenter effect is going to get more and more serious as psi ability grows. However we clearly need to escape from doing yet another experiment to prove that psi exists, and maybe the next step is for some folk to concentrate on improving their own talent - rather as I think mediums do - and then demonstrating their results.

Note that there is no reason why experiments and demonstrations of that kind need not be rigorous.

He posited some ideas in Beyond Physicalism that might connect his thinking on quantum mind to Psi, NDEs, and other phenomena. However even in that book it seemed he was only speaking theoretically rather than outright endorsing such things. In his books he did talk about Panpsychism and Whitehead, can't remember if he endorsed any idea of God in them though.

Well I re-read his chapter in Beyond Physicalism(BP) as part of my discussion with StephenW, and I think he is quite clear that Von Neuman and he were saying that the collapse of the wave function might as well be conceived of as happening at the point where mind meets brain. I.e. they conceive of a mind that is outside physical reality. From that point of view, the brain plus apparatus, and experimental particles simply evolve according to Schroedinger's equation (solving such an equation would be another matter ).

I suppose BP was structured as a series of possible theoretical ideas that could explain the phenomena described in IM, but IMHO Stapp's chapter read like he really believed in the idea, and indeed it was the most interesting proposal in the book.

Well I re-read his chapter in Beyond Physicalism(BP) as part of my discussion with StephenW, and I think he is quite clear that Von Neuman and he were saying that the collapse of the wave function might as well be conceived of as happening at the point where mind meets brain. I.e. they conceive of a mind that is outside physical reality. From that point of view, the brain plus apparatus, and experimental particles simply evolve according to Schroedinger's equation (solving such an equation would be another matter ).

I suppose BP was structured as a series of possible theoretical ideas that could explain the phenomena described in IM, but IMHO Stapp's chapter read like he really believed in the idea, and indeed it was the most interesting proposal in the book.

Oh he definitely felt there was a non-physical aspect to the brain, possibly since the 70s or earlier, but whether he thought this aspect could survive death or be capable of Psi abilities seemed something he was less certain of.

In the paper I linked he seems more comfortable with Psi as a possibility, as well as with Idealism.

p.s. I can't recall my favorite part of the book, possibly Marshall's Monadology or the historical overviews...

Oh he definitely felt there was a non-physical aspect to the brain, possibly since the 70s or earlier, but whether he thought this aspect could survive death or be capable of Psi abilities seemed something he was less certain of.

Well I think he obviously realises that once you have a non-material component to reality, all the conclusions that were reached by assuming there was no such a component are no longer valid.

I always feel scientists in academia have to be a bit cautious about what they say.

Also, as I have often said, I don't think we will really know for certain what happened after death until we get there.

In the paper I linked he seems more comfortable with Psi as a possibility, as well as with Idealism.

Well he isn't a paranormal researcher, he seems to be going as far as he can.

p.s. I can't recall my favorite part of the book, possibly Marshall's Monadology or the historical overviews...

I like Stapp's ideas because they relate to an actual scientific mystery - how to interpret QM.

Well I think he obviously realises that once you have a non-material component to reality, all the conclusions that were reached by assuming there was no such a component are no longer valid.

I always feel scientists in academia have to be a bit cautious about what they say.

Also, as I have often said, I don't think we will really know for certain what happened after death until we get there.
Well he isn't a paranormal researcher, he seems to be going as far as he can.

I like Stapp's ideas because they relate to an actual scientific mystery - how to interpret QM.

I was curious so looked into it, found a paper he wrote on Personal Survival  ->

Compatibility of Contemporary Physical Theory with Personality Survival

Orthodox quantum mechanics is technically built around an element that von Neumann called Process 1. In its basic form it consists of an action that reduces the prior state of a physical system to a sum of two parts, which can be regarded as the parts corresponding to the answers ‘Yes’ and ‘No’ to a specific question that this action poses, or ‘puts to nature’. Nature returns one answer or the other, in accordance with statistical weightings specified by the theory. Thus the standard statistical element in quantum theory enters only after the Process-1 choice is made, while the known deterministic element in quantum theory governs the dynamics that prevails between the reduction events, but not the process that determines which of the continuum of allowed Process-1 probing actions will actually occur. The rules governing that selection process are not fixed by the theory in its present form. This freedom can be used to resolve in a natural way an apparent problem of the orthodox theory, its biocentrism. That resolution produces a rationally coherent realization of the theory that preserves the basic orthodox structure but allows naturally for the possibility that human personality may survive bodily death.

New thread for it here:

https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-c...y-survival