(2017-10-11, 12:49 PM)chuck Wrote: [ -> ]I think you generalize too much when you refer to the forum members in that way. There are some of us who recognize that it is nearly impossible to overcome bias--psychological, cultural, conditional, etc. (Well at least one of us.)
The problem is everyone thinks they are open-minded.
They exhibit a righteous like open mindedness. Or in the words of Alex: "stuck on stupid".
(2017-10-11, 01:35 PM)Steve001 Wrote: [ -> ]They exhibit a righteous like open mindedness. Or in the words of Alex: "stuck on stupid".
Yes. There are people from both "sides" who exhibit that mentality.
(2017-10-11, 08:38 AM)Pssst Wrote: I would consider the experience of an NDE to be "a major theme" being explored in a Life so, Yes. The Life Plan always includes the major themes ("being married, son dying, friends befriended, business failure/success, etc.) and there are no mistakes. There are no "missing themes". Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]Are saying that even in the case of a suicide bomber, his fate is of his own choosing?
Not only is the bomber choosing (pre-planning) his fate, he co-creates it as physical reality demands. Same with those who are affected by his actions. Co-planners and co-creators all.
(2017-10-11, 08:38 AM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]Are saying that even in the case of a suicide bomber, his fate is of his own choosing?
There appears to be at least two quite different ideas about this. Am I correct in saying that yours seems to be the 'love & light' path, where it is all OK, nothing is 'bad' - surely nothing can be, if we plan it in advance? At least from the 'big picture' point of view, as opposed to the limited view we have living the incarnation.
The other viewpoint seems to be the one of Jurgen Ziewe and others. Where there are indeed consequences to evil deeds. Ziewe has written about suicide bombers stuck in a hellish scene that I don't think anyone in their right minds would volunteer for. At the same time, I remember him saying that his own mother found herself in a cocoon of misery after she passed. This, he wrote, was because of the dark depressed state she was in at the time of her passing. However, the good news, is that these unfortunate states are of a temporary nature. Even the suicide bomber 'does his time' (whatever that may be in that reality?) and the light 'eventually' comes to them. ( Or do they move to the light?)
Nothing in Life has meaning until we decide what meaning to assign to it regardless of the pre-plan. It's always a choice and that choice is between having a positive experience or a negative one entirely based on your state of being. It is your state off being that determines your experience not what you are creating about you (physical reality).
Love n Lighters want to shove aside the negative instead of embracing and integrating it into the process of decision-making. They have, generally, selected that journey for themselves, so be it. They choose that limitation. They don't have a "neutral", Stan.
If you find yourself in a hellish state ala Nosso Lar, then you are there because that is the vibration you carried to spirit at death. Since this is a thought-induced environment, the
very moment you no longer desire that experience it must, by definition, cease to exist. Where you "go" is a function of where your vibration finds a resonant state. Wherever that might be.
(2017-10-11, 05:40 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]Not only is the bomber choosing (pre-planning) his fate, he co-creates it as physical reality demands. Same with those who are affected by his actions. Co-planners and co-creators all.
So I'm guessing Jurgen's experience is not as real as he thinks. Why should that be?
(2017-10-11, 05:58 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]So I'm guessing Jurgen's experience is not as real as he thinks. Why should that be?
I would say that it perfectly fits a thought-driven environment, maybe I missed something.
Probably addressed by now, but something as simple as the body of evidence about dreams under a anesthesia imply that this is more of a matter concerning memory rather than a the on/off button.
(2017-10-11, 12:49 PM)chuck Wrote: [ -> ]But there are open-minded folks here. The problem is everyone thinks they are open-minded.
If I were 100% convinced - i.e. enough to say "case closed", i.e. enough to make me closed-minded - I would not even bother with this forum. The fact is that I have many questions and also the need to test my own conclusions, all of which makes discussion in such a forum helpful. There are plenty of echo-chambers out there. Look at the multitude of evangelical or atheist boards for examples.
Skeptics are welcome here but that doesn't mean that there is going to be no push-back when some skeptics arrogantly attempt to "educate" us.
(2017-10-11, 08:43 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]If I were 100% convinced - i.e. enough to say "case closed", i.e. enough to make me closed-minded - I would not even bother with this forum. The fact is that I have many questions and also the need to test my own conclusions, all of which makes discussion in such a forum helpful. There are plenty of echo-chambers out there. Look at the multitude of evangelical or atheist boards for examples.
Skeptics are welcome here but that doesn't mean that there is going to be no push-back when some skeptics arrogantly attempt to "educate" us.
Yeah. I get it. I guess I feel like a knife sharpens best against a stone. I much prefer to see intelligent skeptics post here and present arguments than folks who just repeat the same crap ad nauseum.
(2017-10-12, 12:19 AM)chuck Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah. I get it. I guess I feel like a knife sharpens best against a stone. I much prefer to see intelligent skeptics post here and present arguments than folks who just repeat the same crap ad nauseum.
The trouble is that it seems to be the intelligent ones who say the least.