Physics, Time and Qualia
Lee Smolin & Clelia Verde
Interesting paper from two physicists
Quote:We suggest that four of the deepest problems in science are closely related and may
share a common resolution. These are 1) the foundational problems in quantum theory,
2) the problem of quantum gravity, 3) the role of qualia and conscious awareness in
nature, 4) the nature of time. We begin by proposing an answer to the question of what
a quantum event is: an event is a process in which an aspect of the world which has
been indefinite becomes definite. We build from this an architecture of the world in
which qualia are real and consequential and time is active, fundamental and
irreversible.
If I decipher the text correctly, aren't they saying that we create our own reality?
(2021-10-08, 08:17 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]If I decipher the text correctly, aren't they saying that we create our own reality?
Sort of...I think...but we can only create this reality so long as we don't violate the established precedence in most cases.
I was thinking along the lines of qualia being subjective - the part of consciousness that expresses the way we feel, determines our desires and shapes our beliefs. If qualia are consequential in world building, then so are our desires, beliefs and feelings.
(2021-10-08, 06:47 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Physics, Time and Qualia
Lee Smolin & Clelia Verde
Interesting paper from two physicists
I agree that consciousness exists at the boundary of the computable and the non-computable and is therefore an exploration of novelty and freedom. I wish they had emphasized the importance of the boundary as the location of ambiguity and freedom and novelty. And this leads to my idea that one measure of consciousness is a “surface area to volume ratio”.
Some selected quotes:
Quote:3) the role of qualia and conscious awareness in nature,
Quote:There will be a mixed functionalist and reductive explanation for why humans and other animals experience qualia (or just experience).
Quote:It seems possible, if not likely, that consciousness or awareness had and has a lot to do with the thriving of our species.
The second of these acknowledges that other creatures besides human beings may experience [qualia]. This has not always been so. There was a time when humans were considered conscious and had feelings, but this did not apply to other creatures.
The third though, about the thriving of our species, well maybe we should not get too excited by that. The insect kingdom far outnumbers us, and not just because they are tiny.
Quote:There are approximately 1.4 billion insects for every person on Earth. The total weight of all the insects is about 70 times more than all the people.
source
That wasn't my main point, I was just thinking that anthropocentric arguments will not explain the universe. If our species thrives, then it is because we live on a life-supporting planet. There are so many factors about life on Earth, particularly the effect of the Moon, as well as the usual ones about the distance from the sun and so on.
The effect of the moon is not trivial.
Quote:But without the Moon to stabilise it, this wobble would become erratic and extreme.
Sometimes, the Earth’s axis would point straight up and down at right angles to the Earth’s orbit of the Sun. In this scenario, seasons would be a thing of the past, and night and day would be equally long all year round. At other times, the Earth would tilt all the way over and lie on its side in relation to its orbit around the Sun. This would mean the poles would be burning hot and the equator freezing cold.
source
Where am I going with this? Well, it has taken time but we are somewhat willing to concede (some of the time) that other creatures apart from ourselves may experience consciousness and qualia. But if we are considering the role of consciousness in enabling life to thrive, then maybe it's time to ascribe consciousness and qualia to the mountains, the oceans, the moon, the stars. Rupert Sheldrake has asked, but no-one can answer, whether the Sun is conscious, and if so, what would it think about. Perhaps the answer to our search regarding extra-terrestrial intelligence and the possibility of communication across galactic distances is to be found in the stars, which may be communicating with one another.
I was very surprised to find Lee Smolin - a serious theoretical physicist - writing a paper like that. The paper seemed to be decidedly vague, and didn't start from the best evidence against materialism - NDE's reincarnation, etc.
I think if you start from that perspective, then you have to see consciousness as something that can separate from matter.
To me, scientists interested in exploring ideas like this should hoover up all the evidence that exists but is willfully ignored.
(2021-10-08, 06:47 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]Physics, Time and Qualia
Lee Smolin & Clelia Verde
Interesting paper from two physicists
Just a quick read-thru. Maybe a very important paper.
Quote:
A structural realist, who is a realist about qualia, would attempt to bridge the gaps between sensation and motion opened by Galileo's error by looking for structural parallels between the organization of qualia and the organization of their physical and neurological counterparts.
(2022-02-11, 01:42 AM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: [ -> ]The quantum mechanics of the present
Smolin, Verde
I really don't know why Smolin gets any traction, this link is a criticism of a different Smolin paper, but it's on a similar topic...
Lubos may be a prickly sod online, and super super conservative in the extreme, (hence why he banned me), but the hundreds and hundreds of really excellent explanations he's patiently written in blog posts on Quantum Mechanics, with additional clarifications within the following discus comments, have taught me more about how to think correctly about QM (and science) than anyone else...
Sometimes, I would struggle for hours with a very dense paragraph of his on the subject of QM, just before going to sleep (the best time I've found, as I it seems something happens during sleep, that allows questions to be resolved).
Anyway...
https://motls.blogspot.com/2019/06/smoli...ld-be.html