(2019-01-10, 09:18 AM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]Some things in human mental life have a nonsubjective "real" quality to their nature even though this can't be experimentally demonstrated any more than it can be demonstrated that pi or number theory or mathematics in general have a transcendental Platonic reality that has been discovered by humans rather than their just being mere human constructs. Many or most mathematicians are reported to strongly feel, to have some sort of inner knowing of this.
Ok, what are the equations for morality, meaning, purpose, and value then?
Quote:For example let's take the issue of whether morality and evil exist as immaterial but still real things or transcendentals, or are merely subjective opinions arising from culture, upbringing and neurological evolution.
To get specific on the stakes here, for instance is it wrong and evil to torture an infant to death for personal pleasure? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
It's hard not to laugh at this. Ok... so... before I even
start you've already disproven your own point. Your example has the possibility of a guy having fun with it, clearly
they wouldn't think it's immoral. Ergo, not objective.
Besides, you built your conclusion into the question rather than
demonstrating your conclusion with logic. I can do that too:
Is it wrong and evil to [Eat vanilla icecream]? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
Is it wrong and evil to [Walk your dog on Sunday]? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
Is it wrong and evil to [rape a child]? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
Is it wrong and evil to [Drive on the left side of the road]? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
Is it wrong and evil to [do drugs]? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
Is it wrong and evil to [Be an atheist]? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
Is it wrong and evil to [Not be an atheist]? If you answer Yes, you know what is the "right" answer to a moral question.
Yet another example of the attempt boiling down to someone trying to assert their personal opinion as fact.
Quote:This implies that you are acknowledging that there is indeed some sort of absolute principle here. My impression is that you might still say this answer and its rightness are just personal opinion, that what is "morally right" is purely subjective. That perhaps the feeling of "rightness" is a neurologically caused illusion created by some sort of hypothetical evolutionary psychology mechanism.
I think this "rightness' is not purely a neurologically based subjective instinctive personal reaction due to an evolved sense of empathy (basically merely personal opinion), but it is a sensing of an undeniable self-evident moral truth that has some sort of real Platonic though immaterial existence.
This relates to the thread on whether qualities or properties like beauty and truth are transcendentals.
It's great that you think that it's not that way, but that really doesn't matter. All of these things can be far more easily explained via self interest rather than any sort of transcendental whatever. The very fact that I disagree with you disproves that it's objective, especially since you think it's self evident. Well, you're wrong because it ain't self evident to me.